How close is too close

General Kayak Fishing Discussions
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sharkey
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:55 pm
Kayak Make: viking
Kayak Model: profish,espri,prowler
VHF Call Sign: sharkey
Location: greenhithe,albany

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:59 am

Last week, fishing off Rangitoto, I had this moron skipper steer direct at me bearing down at about 20knots, I watched his approach for some time and his course didn't alter from a direct collision course.......if I hadn't paddled to the side I would've been toast........the boat passed about 20meters off with a huge following wake.......I yelled some good ole sailor language and jestered to the sun....buga, no camera today.......the skipper must have thought it was pretty cool to try and swamp a kayak.
ONCE AGAIN THIS WAS A CHARTER FISHING BOAT!!!!!!!!.......OUT OF AKLD.........DAMN JAFFA SKIPPER.

Next time I'll be fishing with my camera...........and hello MSA.
:@ :@ :@

Mac50L
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:27 am
Kayak Make: SeaLand
Kayak Model: Mac50L
Location: Banks Peninsula
Contact:

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:57 pm

Lister wrote:And wouldn't have to be too sharp to penetrate the thick skull of boat driver! Like where you're coming from :devil:
Lawyer, "You hit him with a crossbow bolt?"

"No, can't have been me as the vessel was travelling at more than 5 knots so MUST have been too far away as I only have a range of under 50 metres."

Judge, "Not guilty. Next case."

Rob
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:05 am
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Aqua 2/Profish Reload
VHF Call Sign: ZMU6741
Location: Masterton

Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:38 pm

Slingshot... easier to carry along, faster to reload.

Enough impact to shatter windows, dent paintwork, crack skulls.

Of course, it might be wiser to just paddle (like an orca is sizing you up for lunch)

;)

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet

Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Guys, can we backpaddle away from the aspect of personal injury or damage. I know it's a frustrating topic that gets our blood up but do we really want Yakkers portrayed this way?

How about toning it down, keeping it civil and try and find some realistic solutions (other than doing everything that we are now...)

Thanks
HLD
Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

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Yakfisherkarl
Posts: 806
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:13 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Profish
VHF Call Sign: ZMT 2691
Location: Northland

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:57 pm

Hairy Little Dwarf wrote:Guys, can we backpaddle away from the aspect of personal injury or damage. I know it's a frustrating topic that gets our blood up but do we really want Yakkers portrayed this way?

How about toning it down, keeping it civil and try and find some realistic solutions (other than doing everything that we are now...)

Thanks
HLD
I'm with HLD on this even though I have been in many similar situations, both in fresh and saltwater.
Even today at the Kai Iwi Lakes there was one boat with people still water ski-ing, just in shorts :| Luckily I only had the one plus a power boat that kept it's distance.
It has to be about education guys and how we go about educating the ones that need to be, all over NZ. I now carry (as an SOP) an extended flag pole in addition to all the high VIZ kit that I normally wear. Each in it's own is only part of the whole visual safety aspect and neither of them on their own would suffice in total, given some of the situations we are now finding ourselves in with boaties. But hey HLD, surely we could stow a small grenade in one of our hataches-just in case :rofl: :rofl: Just kidding!
Cheers
Karl
Cheers
Karl

Karl Pereira
President and Vice Treasurer
Northland Kayak Fishing Club Inc
http://www.northlandyakfishers.org.nz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Facebook page - Nkfc NZ
Email northlandyakfishers@gmail.com

MadMike
Posts: 6276
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:09 pm
Kayak Make: Ocean Kayak, Stealth
Kayak Model: Ultra 4.7, Stealth EVO 495
Location: Whangarei

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:08 pm

Agreed shooting shit at people puts you at there level, or lower.
All you can do is try to educate them and do everything you can to stay safe. at the end of the day if you get hit by a boat you will more than likely not be around to tell them there a fuckwit so the best plan of attack is defense. even though we have a right to be out there as well dont put yourself in a situation where your likely to be in danger. Kind of common sense really. some of the stories you hear about people holding there ground or watching as something motors in from miles away and at the last minute it turns off soret of makes you wonder about the level of intelligence the person telling the story has... especially when they remain there and have multiple boats do it in a day.

Karl Kai Iwi is just out right dangerous. to many people with to many different uses all in to small an area. needs to be sorted before I will venture up there again. there's way better trout water in NZ that doesn't require a pre written obituary before venturing out. Kids and teens driving boats is not an ideally safe situation anywhere.
Fishing is like a box of chocolates. you never know what is going to be served up...

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:44 pm

madmike wrote:Agreed shooting shit at people puts you at there level, or lower.
What calibre would you use for that?
Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

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demigod
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:12 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Espri
Location: Dannemora, Auckland.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:53 pm

Just a thought... I was out on a charter the other weekend, and got to talking about to the skipper about kayak fishing and his perspective as a regular boatie out on the harbour most days, on the topic of the visibility of us. He said the most critical piece of gear in his opinion for seeing us is the flag, and bright coloured clothing/yak. His main concern was if he is heading directly into the setting or rising sun as we can basically disappear in the glare.

So just be extra careful around these times, as boaties may simply not be able to see us due to water reflection etc.
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Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to Yak fish and you won't hear from him most weekends :-P

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Yakfisherkarl
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Location: Northland

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:36 pm

madmike wrote:
Karl Kai Iwi is just out right dangerous. to many people with to many different uses all in to small an area. needs to be sorted before I will venture up there again. there's way better trout water in NZ that doesn't require a pre written obituary before venturing out. Kids and teens driving boats is not an ideally safe situation anywhere.
Sorry mate but beg to differ! KAI IWI is not, repeat not as you say "outright dangerous" Granted though there are some less educated people around and on it from time to time, but mainly in the warmer months. We are now just going into one of the better times for fishing up there with little or no ski/powerboat activity.

Again it is about education, not just on one, but all sides! They (boats) should "drive to the part" and we can also "dress for it"(not just clothing but also the yaks).The time that you were up there Mike on that one occasion, can you remember what high viz kit you had on and what colour was your kayak? Just trying to be constructive not waving a finger?
I met a guy up there today who arrived just after me and he had a kayak that was kind of olive in colour, his clothing was dark but he did have an off yellow PFD. Well my god was he hard to see on the water even in clear conditions. The problem is amplified even more if a vessell is approaching either stern or bow on, and the more "lower profile" your yak is the less visible it will be.
Just my 2 cents worth and Kai Iwi is safe, just as safe as walking in any area that can get busy from time to time, just play by the rules-one and all
Cheers
Karl

Karl Pereira
President and Vice Treasurer
Northland Kayak Fishing Club Inc
http://www.northlandyakfishers.org.nz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Facebook page - Nkfc NZ
Email northlandyakfishers@gmail.com

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oldwetfish
Posts: 659
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VHF Call Sign: ZMW4324

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:40 am

Seems to me that i might have opened a can of worms.

The feeling that i get is that no matter how much high vis gear we wear, and no matter how visible we are, there will be dorks that just seem to want to see what we are up to and see how close that they can get to us.

Perhaps this is an issue for the various manufacturers to look into.
maybe the makers of hobie, cobra, ocean kayak, and viking, could create an action group that puts pressure on fishing clubs, boat clubs, coastguard and the like to make them aware that 'ignorance is no defence in the sight of the law'.

in other words, if they cause or contribute to the death or injury by their 'ignorant or negligent' use of their boat they may wind up in prison looking back at thir conviction for vehicular manslaughter saying, if only someone made me aware that i was doing something that could injure or kill someone.

Maybe we need more 'water police' to ensure the above scenario doesnt happen?

I would welcome some positive discussion from the manufacturers, rather than listen to a 'hate campaign'.
thanks guys.
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Lister
Posts: 1219
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Kayak Make: Tahe & Viking
Kayak Model: Wind 585 & 440 pf
VHF Call Sign: ZMW 4211
Location: South Island

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:22 pm

Ok, I'm guilty as charged, again. Had a close call with Jet ski and most recently, a F :swear: ing yacht that refused to alter course from direct line even though I was at anchor, [try pulling up an anchor and paddling out of the way!] did shout out some helpful advice and also questioned their parentage.

Makes no odds to the average dickhead.

What is really needed is to be able to get onto VHF and make a complaint against the offender and know that CG or someone is going to show up and sh*t from a very great height on the offender. I will be making calls to CG from now on to report near misses, maybe if we all did then someone would start to take notice?

Otherwise, Barrette light .50 will be next purchase :angel:
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I like technology. I especially like to hit it with a big stick!!!!

We don't hate the fat B*tch. We just can't find anything about her to not dislike

ZMW4211. Proud paddler of PF440

MadMike
Posts: 6276
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Kayak Model: Ultra 4.7, Stealth EVO 495
Location: Whangarei

Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:36 pm

Yakfisherkarl wrote:
madmike wrote:
Karl Kai Iwi is just out right dangerous. to many people with to many different uses all in to small an area. needs to be sorted before I will venture up there again. there's way better trout water in NZ that doesn't require a pre written obituary before venturing out. Kids and teens driving boats is not an ideally safe situation anywhere.
Sorry mate but beg to differ! KAI IWI is not, repeat not as you say "outright dangerous" Granted though there are some less educated people around and on it from time to time, but mainly in the warmer months. We are now just going into one of the better times for fishing up there with little or no ski/powerboat activity.

Again it is about education, not just on one, but all sides! They (boats) should "drive to the part" and we can also "dress for it"(not just clothing but also the yaks).The time that you were up there Mike on that one occasion, can you remember what high viz kit you had on and what colour was your kayak? Just trying to be constructive not waving a finger?
I met a guy up there today who arrived just after me and he had a kayak that was kind of olive in colour, his clothing was dark but he did have an off yellow PFD. Well my god was he hard to see on the water even in clear conditions. The problem is amplified even more if a vessell is approaching either stern or bow on, and the more "lower profile" your yak is the less visible it will be.
Just my 2 cents worth and Kai Iwi is safe, just as safe as walking in any area that can get busy from time to time, just play by the rules-one and all
On that one occasion I was wearing a hi Vis full shade hat. A yellow hi Vis PFD and my Yak is 4.95m long in pure white... kinda hard to miss but you have to be looking forward to be able to see hi vis. Oh and old enough to be able to see over the windshield. It's not like we where in the middle of the lake either. more a case of in the shallows well our of what should be main ski areas... I stand by my original comment. its a damn dangerous lake and a very retarded setup.
Fishing is like a box of chocolates. you never know what is going to be served up...

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nzimp
Posts: 2326
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Location: Rotorua

Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:07 pm

I agree with lister. Reporting and making a reasonable nuisance of yourself to the point where action is taken to get rid of you is often a good course to take.
Lister have you thought of attaching your abchor to a float so you can just ditch it in dodgy situations and paddle back to it when you are in the clear?
Simple is as simple does.
http://www.wkfc.org.nz
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Stealth EVO 495
Viking 2+1
Prowler 4.7 (back in the fleet)

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JVT
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Kayak Model: Ultra 4.3 - Lime
Location: Birkenhead

Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:13 pm

For those newbies like me ... how exactly do you go about reporting an incident or close call?

Would uploading footage to a social media site help in education?
The media seem to be on this bandwagon at the moment?
Ocean Kayak - Ultra 4.3 - Lime (Pgrowler)

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lenzman
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Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:22 pm

Reporting incidents is all well and good so long as you weren't sythed in half and left at the bottom of the lake. My take in Kai Iwi is it's hardly policed by the regional council who have jurisdiction over it and people know it. When we were there it wasn't just a question of being visible ( and we were) when folks ignore big yellow buoys with 5 kph on they are not going to obey any other rules either.

The place needs sorting in my opinion it is to small and is no place for boats doing 100kph as there was the day we were there. There is a water ski lake, let the skiing take place on there, and limit the speed limit and engine size on Taharoa so we can fish in peace and safety.

I know some of you guys like the place, fine but stop pretending it's ok and get it sorted. The Harbour master is the first place to start, get regos, boat names and photos, times and the offences you observe.
If I'm not fishing I'm taking photographs, if I'm not taking photographs I'm fishing!!

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Yakfisherkarl
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Location: Northland

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:50 pm

lenzman wrote: I know some of you guys like the place, fine but stop pretending it's ok and get it sorted. The Harbour master is the first place to start, get regos, boat names and photos, times and the offences you observe.
Hey Lenzman both you and Mad Mike fished there once mate in god knows how many years and you even said this to me face to face. Yes you hit it on a very busy weekend-EASTER! During winter i.e from just about now on it will be much better. I have sent Mad Mike a PM and I will also ask you to stop knocking the lakes so much with your "single" bad experience. Some of us are regular yak fishers there, throughout the years and see all sorts.
Busy times of the year bring out the idiots and I know many people including myself that either refuse or cringe at the thought of yak fishing in the open areas of the Bay of Islands during peak times of the year, and that area is obviously covered by MNZ.
Harbour master is not the route either mate as I have also explained to you before. It lies with (God Bless them)the District Council. Perhaps if you feel so strong about your situation, could you please write to them and seek a response on the issue. Would be great to see something productive come from this thread-cheers
Cheers
Karl

Karl Pereira
President and Vice Treasurer
Northland Kayak Fishing Club Inc
http://www.northlandyakfishers.org.nz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Facebook page - Nkfc NZ
Email northlandyakfishers@gmail.com

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Lister
Posts: 1219
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Kayak Make: Tahe & Viking
Kayak Model: Wind 585 & 440 pf
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Location: South Island

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:14 pm

NZImp, have recently re-done my anchor after losing the Tagit one. now have anchor going to a buoy and lighter line to kayak, also carry a "F*** off" sharp knife and will and can easily cut line and grab paddle.
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I like technology. I especially like to hit it with a big stick!!!!

We don't hate the fat B*tch. We just can't find anything about her to not dislike

ZMW4211. Proud paddler of PF440

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lenzman
Posts: 1034
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Tue May 01, 2012 12:14 am

Yakfisherkarl wrote:
lenzman wrote: I know some of you guys like the place, fine but stop pretending it's ok and get it sorted. The Harbour master is the first place to start, get regos, boat names and photos, times and the offences you observe.
Hey Lenzman both you and Mad Mike fished there once mate in god knows how many years and you even said this to me face to face. Yes you hit it on a very busy weekend-EASTER! During winter i.e from just about now on it will be much better. I have sent Mad Mike a PM and I will also ask you to stop knocking the lakes so much with your "single" bad experience. Some of us are regular yak fishers there, throughout the years and see all sorts.
Busy times of the year bring out the idiots and I know many people including myself that either refuse or cringe at the thought of yak fishing in the open areas of the Bay of Islands during peak times of the year, and that area is obviously covered by MNZ.
Harbour master is not the route either mate as I have also explained to you before. It lies with (God Bless them)the District Council. Perhaps if you feel so strong about your situation, could you please write to them and seek a response on the issue. Would be great to see something productive come from this thread-cheers
I make no appologies it only takes one bad experience to hurt or kill someone, for those that fish it sort it, the time before I was there it was full of jet ski riders hooning about. Its a nice place with some different fishing and good spot to go when its not so good off the coast, but I will not be in any rush to return, my personal opinion :!:
If I'm not fishing I'm taking photographs, if I'm not taking photographs I'm fishing!!

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Jeff666
Posts: 985
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:34 pm
Kayak Make: Ocean kayak
Kayak Model: Trident 4.3

Tue May 01, 2012 8:56 am

I think that all of the water rules need to be looked at, we all complain about certian boats but i am sure the boaties will have the same compliants about certian yaks, seeing some of the people fishiong in the main channel on Bucklands Beach in between the channel markers on a busy sunday :!: :!: in reality when there are fizz boats, jet ski's and tinnies shooting everywhere on the weekend or holidays are there any fish around or do they just stay on the outside and wait until the next day when it is less busy. It seems to be the same arguement as the cars vs push bikes, the more people who use or have access to a resource the more incedents occur.
When you see people going out without hi-viz in dark coloured yaks, no PPF, means of communication, wearing waist high waders, no knowledge of the tide directions, weather forecasts or thier own abilities it is a recipe for disaster. As with all bad experiences we remember and discuss them a lot more than we do with the good experiences and in reality the ratio between good and bad is close to 80/20 in favour of good. Education is the only way forward so maybe Mental could do another piece in the fishing magazine from the yak point of view and get a boatie to do the same from his point of view. It would get some exposure on the subject and make people think while they are on the water and maybe have a positive impact. :D
Old Town Predator 13
On the way The Old Town Predator PDL

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oldwetfish
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:33 pm
Kayak Make: Hobie
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VHF Call Sign: ZMW4324

Tue May 01, 2012 11:25 am

good positive comments jeff.

however, we need to bear in mind 80-20 is a good rule, however if 20% have the potential to cause injury or death, that makes it very serious.

There is no legal defense to 'i didn't see it!'.
think of the titanic, there was no defense to - i didnt see the iceberg.

and when you are driving a car there is no possible defense to - I hit a kid on the road.
Someone still is injured or killed, that is something that you are going to have to live with.

As the captain of any vehicle you are responsible for the right speed in the conditions.
If i had a big launch, I would make damn sure I didnt have to front up to someones wife and kids and explain how sorry I was for killing their husband and father.
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