Spearo / freediving pool training

Section for the discussion of fishing in the water, be it scuba or free-diving
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kayak chris
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Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:55 pm

Nice one mate, 2.30 is a very respectable time without any training.
Spearfishing from a yak opens up some great new opotunities, and is great fun.
Just try find a buddy, and do some research on the net about shallow water blackout, as when learning its common to naturally hyperventylate a bit on your breath up, which alough it seems like a good thing, is actually very bad.
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sk8e8
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Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:12 pm

Just read through this now. Looking forward to summer - will have to get me just a little gear and have a play.

KC, do any diving over winter?
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kayak chris
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Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:39 pm

When I can find someone to dive with... Always keen to go out. But my normal partner has somewhat retired over winter ;)
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sk8e8
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Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:00 pm

If you got some spare gear, I'm keen... a 4/3 wetsuit enough?? Prob not... still, I'll give it a go :headbang:
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Yakhard
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Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:03 pm

Give me a buzz if your going for a dive chris

Im abit of a spearing amateur but I have all the gear and am super keen

Yourve got my number :call:

cjnatan
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:21 pm

You guys still do pool trainings? :)

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kayak chris
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:40 pm

Not so much.... :lol:
once I'm totally over my op and am able to get back in the water I'll be starting up again to try get my dive fittness up.
Will give ya a bell when I do
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JUZZY
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:48 pm

maybe try one of these i had a few worked real well. even used it while at work, you'll notice a big difference after a week of use
http://www.wildblue.co.nz/products/inde ... oduct/3304 :y:

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YakM@
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Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:29 am

3 minutes for me static. There are good courses you can go to to learn to breath hold better.
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Fish'N'Snork
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Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:26 pm

In "Spearo dies" Thread Shallow Water Blackout was brought-up. It is why I make ditching my weight belt a common practice. All free-divers should be prepared to drop their weight belt at anytime. Ya belt is cheap compare ta ya life. For those that don't know (bare with me those that do) this what happens:
Diving down compresses the air in your lungs, making more of the air to be absorbed in your blood.
This increases the oxygen available in your blood as you go deeper, making you feel like you can stay longer.
As you return the the surface, this "extra" air gets taken out of your blood (quite quickly in the last 30feet).
Now suddenly your body is badly short of oxygen (hypoxic).
This causes you to black-out due to lack of Oxygen to your brain close to the surface (hence it's name).
Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shallow_water_blackout
Recommend watching this YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8RyAo0Qsdk. That diver was lucky his buddies were there. Sound advise from them, but ditching the weight belt earlier would have been advisable and should be part of your diving practice IMHO. I have a buoy line for mine so I drop my belt all the time as a lazy way to the surface and pull the belt up later.
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kayak chris
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Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:23 pm

Yea well said mate.
Just on that the hard thing is that while you may take your belt off and hold it thinking you will drop it if you blackout, more often than not your body won't naturally do this. (so dump it early if your on a long dive)
My ex was a coastie, and a commonish problem was scollop divers being found on the bottom still holding thier catch bag...
Best to always dive with a partner who has experience, and you know you can trust.
Always have the surface diver watching his partner (I'll confess to diving some pretty murkey water and loosing my buddie more than once) but that vid shows just how easy it is for it to happen, and that diver didn't see it coming at all.
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Kayak Rob
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Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:37 am

While shallow water blackout is a concern it is more of one for the experienced free diver who has become good at tricking the brain to not recognize when they need oxygen.
Most blackouts happen close to the surface and if the dive buddy is close by they can bring the victim up to take his first breath when the victim wakes up. If left unattended the victim will awake from blackout while still under the water and this is when they drown because they will gasp for air then after this they sink to the bottom.
The best thing to do is not push yourself to much if your buddy isn't close or you are solo diving which is something that experienced divers will do.
Often an indicator that you are running out of oxygen is on ascent and the first thing to go will be your legs which start to get a burning sensation and turn to jelly so if you get this then it is wise to grab the belt and pull it so it is unfastened and will drop if you let go.
Always ensure you are correctly weighted so you float (are negative buoyant) at a certain depth which ensures you will come up even if blacking out. If you are diving in shallow water to 6 or 7 meters then weight yourself to sink at 4 meters and if diving below this then weight yourself to float at 6 meters.

Always allow sufficient times between dives to re-oxygenate the body properly before going down again. Generally this is at least double the duration of the last dive if you are fit, however the body and mind will tell you when that is so you will know when you feel comfortable.
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kayak chris
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Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:02 am

Thanks rob,
Without a doubt your a more experienced diver than I am so great to have the input, and please correct me if im wrong here, but just on this comment
Kayak Rob wrote:While shallow water blackout is a concern it is more of one for the experienced free diver who has become good at tricking the brain to not recognize when they need oxygen.
But my thoughts from discussing this with Matt @ wild blue (saw some of your artwork in there on the weekend too :y: )The problem that many in experienced divers suffer is the want to almost hyperventilate on thier breath up as they seem to be under the impression that doing so helps oxygenate the cells.
What this does though is means you expell CO2, which again sounds like a good thing, but its not lack of oxygen that tells the body to breathe, its the buildup of CO2, so potentially because you hyperventilate on the surface and expell a heap of the CO2 in your body, then the body doesnt realise it needs air untill its almost too late....
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Fish'N'Snork
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Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:42 pm

Hyperventilating is a bad habit for Free Divers. Although you do get a small gain in tissue oxygenation, you dangerously lower your CO2 levels. It is the increase in CO2 in your body that triggers the urge to breath, not low oxygen. This means that get you sucked in to thinking that you can stay down longer. Where as you are really dangerously low on Oxygen. Better bottom times can be achieved by learning how to relax your body and mind with calm steady breathing before the dive, and maintaining that calm state throughout you dive. Excited, anxious or nervous mind state burns through your oxygen quickly. Keeping fit helps a lot too. Playing Underwater Hockey used to help a lot with this in my younger days. Now however, I'm sadly out of practice and having to work slowly on improving my relaxation techniques and fitness so limiting myself to 30ft instead of the 60ft I could do in my 20's & 30's.
PS: Don't go out drinking the day before diving. Have a Buddy that is paraplegic from having done that. Save it to after ya get back home.
Last edited by Fish'N'Snork on Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Less Negativity And More Positive Encouragement Makes For A Better Life For All.

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kayak chris
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Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:48 pm

Thanks mate, so my thinking was right then. :y:
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Kayak Rob
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Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:45 pm

Yep I also agree hyperventilation isn't good and yes it is the lack of Co2 that is the trigger not low oxygen.
Taking long slow deep breaths is a much better way than hyperventilation.

Doing a series of 4 to 5 long slow deep breaths in and out prior to your dive is excellent and safe.

Fish N Snork is correct with relaxation and it does play a big part in staying down longer.

Try lying on the surface and relaxing before diving I like to lie there with my eyes closed which further aids in slowing the heart rate down. Even descending with your eyes closed helps with staying calm as well just don't crash into the bottom.

Learning to breath properly is a good idea and one exercise which will help you to gain ability is a yoga exercise called Pranayama. Meditation is just another part of the system also and helps you to be in touch with your body.

A couple of exercises to help increase your breath hold are lie on the floor relax and do your breath up as you would before diving, then hold your breath for 1 minute and once you reach this time roll over and while continuing to hold your breath do push up until you are at you maximum Co2 level and want to breath. This helps you become more Co2 tolerant and over time you will do more push ups before needing to breath.

The other is done outside and requires you to measure an area of length so using a flat area of lawn is good. Measure out lengths of 5 mts, 10mts, 15mts, 20mts, 25mts and 30mts. Do your breath ups as if you are going to dive then walk (at a slow pace) the distance starting with 5 mts and then when you get to this pause and pretend to be taking a photo or something then walk back to the start and repeat to the next length. What this will do is help you to become more confident about diving to certain depths.

While training in the pool is good there is no substitute for diving in the sea.

My 5 cents worth.

As kayak spearfishing is something I love even more than fishing I will try to get involved with this section more and perhaps we could all go on a kayak spearfishing mission together sometime.
cheers
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kayak chris
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Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:59 pm

Awsome post, thanks rob :y:
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fatbob
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Fri May 27, 2011 3:59 pm

Trying to revive this thread…

Hi there, I just wanted to let you know that there are some more interesting techniques how to push your breathhold. I've done the freediving course from the no bubbles team in Auckland and was hooked ever after. Actually, the freediving got me into spearfishing, not the other way round. It is interesting that some people are outstanding in diving the distance (Dave Mullins) but 'kind of normal' in static and vice versa. Guy Brew is the fella that manages 9min 30 or so, but isn't too keen on distance diving.
I had the pleasure to be coached by Guy Brew and Katherine McPhee and both helped me pushing my personal best in the pool. But as has already been mentioned, diving in the sea is very different and I'm nowhere close in my breath hold while spearfishing as I used to be in the pool (I stopped the pool training 2 years ago).
So here is my personal list that helps me getting comfy in the water:
• build your custom neck weight in addition to the diveweights. I wear a custom weight made of a bike tube, two clips and lead shot, weighs 1.2kg and balances the lot nicely. Helps with the duck dive too.
• use a floatline a meter longer than the length of your comfortable depth. Best assurance how deep you are and how long you can stay down there including ascent time.
• don't look down when descending – the additional strain retards your pipe and uses more oxygen (still working on this too)
• stop kicking after reaching equilibrium – again don't use up your oxygen, rather enjoy the glide (after all that's the best part of freediving)
• pick a spot and wait in the weed for the fish to turn up. Prowling around spooks fish, being this big floppy something makes them curious
• no coffee (but yes to orange juice – makes your blood sour and increases o2 absorption – so they say, never tried it)
• most important: relax and keep your surface 'protocol' : spend at least 5-10 minutes on the surface before diving again

K

Mind you, I'm still no expert in spearfishing, but know my way around freediving…
There are more tricks that helped pushing my PB in statics to 5min.25sec. But I won't tell (yet), because this is a completely different sport from spearfishing and doesn't help increasing your bottom time.

cjnatan
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Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:28 pm

Thanks for the input guys. Although I havent started this discussion, its always on your mind while diving...

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