Glass or Plastic!

Discussion here that is specific to SiKs and catching/processing fish without (hopefully) joining them...
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yakman
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:20 pm

Looking at a new kayak next year and have been pondering the ultimate question for some time, glass or plastic? I use can't seem to convince myself one way or the other :headbang:

I currently have a Southern Skua. It has been a good kayak and will paddle it for the rest of this summer but it is an earlier model with a small cockpit which although not a huge problem is just a little tight for comfort. When I bought the kayak earlier in the year it was in pretty mint condition for its age however I have managed to make it look very 2nd hand in the time I have had it :$ Not through mistreatment, just a lot of use on a rugged coast and in all sorts of conditions.

I love fiberglass. I love the finish, the responsiveness, the sharp lines, the colors, the sound through the water, the speed and the general look but having said that my Skua is the only 'Sea Kayak' I have ever paddled any reasonable distances. The problems I have are I guess moderate to high wear and tear (scratches, scrapes, lost of gel coat under hull) the kayak suffers just from the nature of what I do with it which involves distance paddling, touring, surf sessions, rivers, lakes, some hostile/rocky landings, accidental 'Rock Gardening' :$ . I also use the kayak very regularly i.e. 2-3 times a week. I am not sure what is considered 'acceptable' wear and tear on a glass boat? I cringe every time I contact something hard or notice a new scratch or gouge :worried:

So this is my predicament :?: I would say the main purpose I want the kayak for is distance paddling/touring, keeping in mind that living on the west coast there is always the chance of a hairy surf exit or landing. I have been kayaking for 8 years and am comfortable in a kayak i.e. rolling, self rescue, extended periods on the water etc. I am 186cm and 105kg, solid build.

Any ideas?

Cheers Yakman :y:
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Winch
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:32 pm

Get two one in plastic for short days and bashing around and one in glass for big all day trips. seen you paddle 3 times a week you can justify it ;) a plastic skua and a composite skua :)

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yakman
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:46 pm

Winch wrote:Get two one in plastic for short days and bashing around and one in glass for big all day trips. seen you paddle 3 times a week you can justify it ;) a plastic skua and a composite skua :)
Ha, fantastic idea :D If I could I would have a kayak for every day of the week plus some spares but unfortunately at this point in time it will only be one kayak ;(
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Winch
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:49 pm

have you tried a barracuda beachcomber ?? Its the closest to the middle you will get.

paddlesnap
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:03 am

yakman wrote:Looking at a new kayak next year and have been pondering the ultimate question for some time, glass or plastic? I use can't seem to convince myself one way or the other :headbang:

I currently have a Southern Skua. It has been a good kayak and will paddle it for the rest of this summer but it is an earlier model with a small cockpit which although not a huge problem is just a little tight for comfort.


Cheers Yakman :y:
Modify the Cockpit seat first up like I have (similar size but lighter ;) )but I'm big in the thighs from running etc
so modified the seat hangers accordingly and it's a whole new comfort ball game :rock:

Stay with composite just treat it nicer :y:

I always carry HD pool noodle type hull fenders that tuck into cockpit and any dragging or placing on rough stuff they come out .

You will be disappointed with plastic after composite believe me :wasntme:

MM's got his on TradeMe at the mo , nice boat.

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YakSolo_333
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:24 am

Sea bear waitoa is what you want to paddle bro. Waitoa is the modified and improved version of the trusty bear. If you go with the option of buying new, we can do any sort of customization that you requires from moulded in rod holders to your choice of foot rests etc. It has an in built wear strip and its certainly built to last for life. 8)
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yakman
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:37 am

paddlesnap wrote:Modify the Cockpit seat first up like I have (similar size but lighter ;) )but I'm big in the thighs from running etc
so modified the seat hangers accordingly and it's a whole new comfort ball game :rock:
Thought long and hard about a modification (have seen yours :y: ) but have decided against it. The seat also forms the bulkhead and I don't have the skill or the inclination for such an undertaking :sweat: Plus I would also want to modify the rudder/pedal set up etc etc :o:
paddlesnap wrote:You will be disappointed with plastic after composite believe me :wasntme:
Yeah that worries me greatly :sweat:
YakSolo_333 wrote:Sea bear waitoa is what you want to paddle bro. Waitoa is the modified and improved version of the trusty bear. If you go with the option of buying new, we can do any sort of customization that you requires from moulded in rod holders to your choice of foot rests etc. It has an in built wear strip and its certainly built to last for life. 8)
Yes, have read a lot about the Sea Bear Waitoa and it is currently sitting on top of my list, although I have yet to paddle one :y:
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YakSolo_333
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:45 am

Might be able to locate one for you to paddle. Let me know
Enjoy every craft that can float, don't have one, have them all

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Winch
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:29 am

You could beef up the laminate too, A custom laminate on the sea bear would be my pick, for a extra $500 you could make it that much stronger :y: and get a white hull its easer to fix. my pick is paddle perfection over Q kayaks, PP is built better

Whats your budget?

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YakSolo_333
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:29 am

Winch wrote:You could beef up the laminate too, A custom laminate on the sea bear would be my pick, for a extra $500 you could make it that much stronger :y: and get a white hull its easer to fix. my pick is paddle perfection over Q kayaks, PP is built better

Whats your budget?
PP Kayaks sent to tour operators are bulletproof but then weight is not an issue for them.
Enjoy every craft that can float, don't have one, have them all

Paddling Perfection BreakSea (Demo) /Prowler 4.7 (x2)/Wahoo fishing Ski/Mirage 580 Expedition/Preception Streamline/Perception Swing /Cobra triple[/center]

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MadMike
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:58 am

Hmm the Polar bear looks nice
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yakman
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:31 pm

YakSolo_333 wrote:Might be able to locate one for you to paddle. Let me know
Have sent you a PM :y:
Winch wrote:Whats your budget?
The 'Sea Bear Waitoa' would be my limit (or if you ask my wife the Mission 'Squirt' :lol: )
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Winch
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:50 pm

Do it :)

paddlesnap
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Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:31 pm

Waitoa -dated hull design and slow in head winds , forget it -much better Yaks out there now :n: :n:

I know I've got a Sea Bear(identical hull to Waitoa) and others( Albatross , Torres ) ;)

Learn how to repair the kayak it aint hard and has to be done and thats the beauty of composite -you can :clap:

Reckon my main Sea Kayak- QK Torres- is the equivalent of a million mile( tonnes of catch :) ) vehicle and it's still performing admirably :clap: :y: :y:
Re gel coating the white hull is ongoing maintenance on any boat and makes ya more careful believe me , either that or just buy a new one every year :lol:

Composite Southern Skua :y: just get a boatbuilder or Max to do the seat mods as described :y:

Cheers
Last edited by paddlesnap on Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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YakSolo_333
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Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:53 pm

A great hull is never dated!

Different boats for different purposes and sea bear is no exception. Its built for expedition and is a very high volume kayak hence sits a bit high on the water when empty. Once loaded and with a heavier paddler in mind, its a different boat entirely. Have a look at the guys who paddled around ALASKA on seabears, they would think twice if it was a slow and dated boat. I am getting one custom made for myself too in a near future for my round north island expedition trip next year :x :x :x ;)

Kayaks are very personal and they are more than just toys. You have to paddle one first to decide which one is right for you.

:y:
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Mac50L
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Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:46 pm

What is your weight? 100 kg + then the suggestion of the Sea Bear or Beachcomber might be OK but if under that, NO.

I'm 6' and 70 kg and as far as I'm concerned the Sea Bear is a pig of a boat - too much rocker, way too much. My own boats have rocker but not no where that much.

I took a Sea Bear out one day (out of Cass Bay) with a good southerly on Lyttelton Harbour, did a triangular course. The Sea Bear was all over the place to windward, a fight to keep it straight. OK down wind but I was near blown on to the rocks/beach with the wind on the beam. I then took my own design out and it simply did what I wanted - go to windward? OK straight to windward. Down wind, leapt over the waves. Beam on, simply went where pointed, nothing dramatic.

The Beachcomber? Was paddling that one day with someone else in one of my designs. Wind on the beam and I was pointing to windward while they paddled straight in the direction they wanted to go.

As for the Sea Bear double. I had a friend going to build my design or a Sea Bear. they tried out the Sea Bear and it got a bit windy (Queen Charlotte Sound) and they were promptly blown over. Some of the gusts could have been towards 40 knots. My front paddler and I would huncker down, beam on until the gusts eased and then carry on. Not a chance of being blown over, totally controlable.

Mac50L
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Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:52 pm

YakSolo_333 wrote:Have a look at the guys who paddled around ALASKA on seabears, they would think twice if it was a slow and dated boat.:
When? Or do you mean Antarctica? Talking to one of them the only thing was the load carrying ability. Paul Caffyn did Alaska and used a Nordkapp (always uses a Nordkapp) and they are an older design.

I presume everyone knows Paul Caffyn? Around New Zealand, Britain, Japan, Australia, Alaska, New Caledonia, Thailand's west coast, a large part of Greenland. You won't find him in a Sea Bear.

Winch
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Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:05 pm

Mac50L have you ever noticed a performance difference with ply kayaks over composite hulls

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yakman
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Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:23 pm

Appreciate the feedback guys :y: I think ultimately what I have got out of it is 'try before you buy' as it will come down to personal preference.

I think over this summer I will just paddle as many different boats as possible and see what best suits. I know we will be bestest friends :inlove: and spend a lot of time together so worth taking my time and choosing right.
"Oh it's on...it's on like donkey kong"

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YakSolo_333
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Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:31 am

Yes the Antarctica and packhorse for Alaska.

:)

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