Anchor Trolley System

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Whitenero
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:12 pm

Hi All,

Im asking for any ideas for the Anchor Trolley Cleat? I have all the components for my anchor trolley setup but cant find anywhere that sells a zig zag cleat which seems to be the most common cleat used in conjunction with the anchor trolley so i wondered what you guys are using?

Any ideas or info is much appreciated.
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dedant
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:34 pm

Personaly I don't use a lock off cleat at all. Sometimes, when needed, the paddle park bungy is enough. :)
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Beast
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:51 pm

Most boat shops will sell cleats I think? Personally never had an issue with it moving at all, either pulls from the bow or stern so kept in place by the current pretty much.
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iwill2
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:06 pm

The first anchor trolley I made which I got the design from the UK forum anglers afloat (the first one I found back then) had cleats etc but I never used them. Not sure why they think they are needed . If you pull your anchor/drogue to the front or rear it stays there , If you need it in between for some reason I cant think of it probably stays there to. A bit like their waterproof battery boxes?.
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secala
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:32 pm

Or use a shark clip if you want to lock it off.
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Whitenero
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:36 pm

Ok awesome thanks guys i was under the impression it would move if not locked down but i will give the "No Cleat" method a go and see how that works. Shark clip is also a good idea should the need arise.

I was racking my brain thinking how am i gonna get this to work!

Thanks again!
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Mental
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:59 pm

Yea not common to see a cleat used on an NZ running rig, 99% of the time you'll find yourself just running it right to the front or rear so no real need to lock it off half way :y:
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AndrewRawlingson
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Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:50 pm

I don't use a clear either, never seen the need, but I don't anchor in strong currents. If you decide you do need one, then as suggested, it might be worth dropping in to anglersafloat to see how they do things.

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Whitenero
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Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:20 am

Ok cool, gonna test it out today at Glenduan (Bolderbank) in Nelson and see how i go.

Thanks for the tips! Not having a cleat will defo save me some money and setup time!
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Whitenero
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Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:33 pm

Yep tried the anchor trolley system today and had no problems, worked a treat. I have one question, it was glassy on the water today but i can see it being a bit harder to pull the anchor in in windy conditions as the yak was side on to the waves when i was lifting it up. Is this the case for everyone or is there some special way of pulling it up to avoid a compromising position.

I figure its just a manoeuvre you want to do quickly to avoid capsize.

Let me know,
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Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:50 pm

If it's quite windy I will paddle the kayak to the drogue rather than pulling it towards me, then once by the drogue I grab the small end this means you are not trying to lift all the water rather you are emptying it out :y:
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Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:10 pm

A float on the narrow end on a short tether for it's deployed depth , then like Jase said paddle up or back paddle to it( normally off stern for me in an enclosed Sea Kayak as they ride better to the swells that way and I prefer to face fishing direction ) and as you pass grab the narrow end float and pull aboard empties itself , the trolley follows it along also and better not clipped at all.


Big tip , best for Softbaiting and any Lures to fish into current just like Trout fishing on rivers , the action is far better and you keep in touch with lure , Fish also face into any current so see the jig bouncing along towards them in their feeding station and it's far more natural to them than a trailed down current flailing streamed lure which rises up the water column- far better along nearer the bottom.
Cheers

Beast
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Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:00 pm

I fixed a retrieval line to the loop on the top of my drogue so I can simply pull it and have it collapse, makes getting it back a breeze! Just make sure you have a good amount of slack in the line or it'll never inflate properly.

The currents we get around Wellington are pretty strong, I've had some interesting moments retrieving the anchor when the conditions deteriorate. I now use a float attached to my anchor rope so that if I have to bail I can simply un-clip it and then paddle back onto it and retrieve with my bow facing into the wind/swell (although you will swing back around sideways in time).
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Whitenero
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Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:42 pm

Thanks for all the helpful tips and interesting comment about fish facing into current which is what i have observed spearfishing, but never thought about it too much when i have been fishing so thanks for pointing it out. I don't actually have a sea drogue yet, although i am lead to believe they are essential to kayak fishing.

I was referring to the folding grapnell (fixed anchor(1.5kg)) which is the system i currently am using.

For example when i want to pull the anchor up i move the anchor trolley to the side of the yak so i can hand wind it in but as i did that i noticed that i was side on to the waves and i suddenly realized that in rougher conditions it could have the potential for capsizing if not done quickly which is hard to do if your hand winding 30metres of line from a seated position.

This video from a UK angler explains his method which is the one that im employing(minus the fancy reel which looks useful) but wondered if thats what you guys do as well? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh1BhrSOAR0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers
Whitenero
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Whitenero
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Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:13 am

Just had a thought, I should probably unclip from the running rig when winding in the anchor that way i can ditch the lot if i get into trouble from a rogue wave :rofl: . I also have a float attached to the folding anchor line so the lot can be ditched easily should the need arise.

Will give this method a go next time im out as i had a small tangle today which could have been alot worse if it was rougher out there.

I did take tomorrow off work as its my birthday :^: but the weathers turning to shit so don't think ill see any water unfortunately!

Thanks again for all your comments, much appreciated.
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YakDr
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Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:46 am

I use 3mm floating anchor rope so my technique off the taranaki coast is to pull the running rig forward to where I can reach the floating winder and the start of the anchor rope. I then pull the rope in and continue spilling the rope out the same side you are working on without winding it onto the winder. (Don't take the easy option and spill it out the opposite side as if you tip out you may end up tangled in the rope) Yes you get pulled sideways to the current/wind but as long as your anchor let's go of the bottom quickly it doesn't last long. Once you have the anchor secured on board you can take your time to wind the rope onto the winder because it will be floating along on the surface behind you. This allows a much quicker retrieval of your anchor and helps to prevent it getting snagged again on the bottom while you are drifting and slowly winding rope onto your winder.
While on the topic of anchoring - make sure you have two connection points to your anchor. The permanent secure attachment goes between the chain and the head of the anchor (where the folding arms all meet in the centre). Then have the chain slightly loose and make an attachment with something like a 2mm cable tie to the tail of the anchor. This way if the anchor snags, hopefully the cable tie will break and you can pull the anchor out backwards.
Still be wary when pulling an anchor up. It can end up being a bit precarious if it takes a while for your anchor to release and there is a current/swell running or the wind has got up. Sometimes despite all the best intentions you still have to cut the rope and replace the chain and anchor unfortunately.
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Whitenero
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Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:22 am

YakDr wrote:I use 3mm floating anchor rope so my technique off the taranaki coast is to pull the running rig forward to where I can reach the floating winder and the start of the anchor rope. I then pull the rope in and continue spilling the rope out the same side you are working on without winding it onto the winder. (Don't take the easy option and spill it out the opposite side as if you tip out you may end up tangled in the rope) Yes you get pulled sideways to the current/wind but as long as your anchor let's go of the bottom quickly it doesn't last long. Once you have the anchor secured on board you can take your time to wind the rope onto the winder because it will be floating along on the surface behind you. This allows a much quicker retrieval of your anchor and helps to prevent it getting snagged again on the bottom while you are drifting and slowly winding rope onto your winder.
While on the topic of anchoring - make sure you have two connection points to your anchor. The permanent secure attachment goes between the chain and the head of the anchor (where the folding arms all meet in the centre). Then have the chain slightly loose and make an attachment with something like a 2mm cable tie to the tail of the anchor. This way if the anchor snags, hopefully the cable tie will break and you can pull the anchor out backwards.
Still be wary when pulling an anchor up. It can end up being a bit precarious if it takes a while for your anchor to release and there is a current/swell running or the wind has got up. Sometimes despite all the best intentions you still have to cut the rope and replace the chain and anchor unfortunately.
Thanks YakDr, this is my current setup that clips onto the anchor trolley system. It does have the aforementioned zip tie should i encounter a snag. Only problem with it is that the float bungee sections gets in the way when winding in the line if its clipped to the yak but i figure if i unclip the system from the kayak i can hand wind it in. I dont really like the idea of having lots of loose unwound line on the top of the yak as ive been in my fair few tangles with king fish and float lines so would worry i could capsize and get into a tangle.

Any comments on the setup would be appreciated though.

Cheers
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Whitenero
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Hurley Burley
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Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:25 pm

YakDr wasn't saying to pull anchor rope onto the yak but as you are pulling the rope up allow the slack that you have just pulled up to drift away from the yak with the current. That way if you need to drop the anchor to brace or quickly move the anchor will drop to the sea bed taking the slack in from the surface of the water. If you wind and pull at the same time, not only is it slower, but if you have to let go of the anchor for any reason, both anchor and winder will disappear under the water. I doubt your float is strong enough to stop it sinking.


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Beast
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Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:35 pm

I'd be worried that those carabiners aren't strong enough? What sort of bottom are you anchoring over? If it's mostly sand you might find a danforth anchor more suitable? I've just changed to using one (also 1.5kg) from my grapnel as I found that the grapnel was slipping on rougher days in our currents, so far it's been excellent but I've not really put it to the test yet. That said, if you've no issues with it holding then I wouldn't bother changing it (you could try adding more chain in the first instance though?).

I only use a drogue around wellington when I want a rest from paddling somewhere into the wind and don't want to drift backwards too far and lose my progress or if it's too deep for my anchor rope (bearing in mind you need to let out lots more rope than the actual depth). We tend to anchor, berley and stink bait compared to fishing further north where drifting and softbaiting is more common (not to say that it wouldn't work here though - I'm not an expert!).

If you do unclip from your kayak then you have the option of simply dropping it with float attached and as YakDr said, if you can quickly lift the anchor off the bottom then you will be drifting again and relatively safe in most conditions while you pull it up and wind up the rope. Spilling rope back into the water beside you rather than your lap is probably easier to avoid tangles too until you have the anchor on board and can then retrieve the rope. Just beware of it drifting around your rudder, etc. The breakaway as you've set it up is a great idea too, just make sure you can break it (bear in mind you will be sitting down in your kayak and your rope may stretch, etc.), it is easier if there is a bit of slack in the chain between the head of the anchor and your cable tie.
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Whitenero
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Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:01 pm

Thanks for the responses. I only opted for 1 meter of chain so i maybe could benefit from another meter or so. I have only been out 3 times so far so i haven't had a chance to put it through its paces. I figured the float would hold the anchor but i haven't actually tested this yet without it being clipped to the kayak.

Anchoring over various bottom structures here in Nelson could be sand, Boulders or reef.

The carabinas are cheap aluminum ones which i could swap with some D-shackles that i have lying around although i think the cheap rope im using would give out before the caribenas do.

Just seen this video on the tube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wllv5zVTsHQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; would this be a typical deployment and retrieve? I noticed that he only brought the trolley by his side so he could grab the rope then ran it up the front so he could hoist from the front an not the side. Seems like a good idea to me that i hadn't thought of. The he winds the line in afterwards once hes up which is what i think you guys were saying is the best way.

Cheers,
Whitenero
PB's: Red Cod 43cm
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