covid 19 sports

General Kayak Fishing Discussions
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SitDown
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Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:51 pm

https://sportnz.cwp.govt.nz/covid-19/al ... formation/

More detailed information on Sport and Recreation under Alert Levels by Category:


https://sportnz.cwp.govt.nz/assets/Uplo ... -Table.pdf

makes good reading in the water sports info, altho does not specifically mention kayak fishing

Mac50L
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Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:35 pm

from those links -

Allowed: swimming, surfing, kayaking, canoeing, rowing, windsurfing and paddle boarding, but stay close to shore.
Allowed: Recreational and other non-commercial fishing or line-fishing allowed from shore only.

This means you are not to let a fishing line trail behind your kayak. Unless you are careless and it accidentally falls overboard and you apologise profusely.... and you think you can get away with it.

OK it doesn't make sense but those who make the rules don't know what goes on in normal life. All fishing from a boat MUST be from a power boat and therefore not allowed is their thinking.

Fishing from a kayak or rowing boat has got to be a lot safer than swimming or surfing.

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Marc N
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Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:37 am

Mac50L wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:35 pm
from those links -

Allowed: swimming, surfing, kayaking, canoeing, rowing, windsurfing and paddle boarding, but stay close to shore.
Allowed: Recreational and other non-commercial fishing or line-fishing allowed from shore only.

This means you are not to let a fishing line trail behind your kayak. Unless you are careless and it accidentally falls overboard and you apologise profusely.... and you think you can get away with it.

OK it doesn't make sense but those who make the rules don't know what goes on in normal life. All fishing from a boat MUST be from a power boat and therefore not allowed is their thinking.

Fishing from a kayak or rowing boat has got to be a lot safer than swimming or surfing.
Thank you for the clarification.

It's starting to feel like we as Kayak Fishermen, are being singled out, by not being addressed. We need to get this addressed. I'm off to hit the MPs and Newspapers.
Yu Co
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Marc N
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Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:18 am

Here's a letter to my local MP Dan Bidois, I've just sent. Feel free to copy, or adapt this and send to anyone, you all can. If we say nothing, nothing is what we'll get.
___________

Hi Dan,

I am writing to you because you are the Member of Parliament for Northcote, I grew up in Northcote and still live here.

This Covid Virus lockdown has affected us all. And by and large, people in NZ have complied with the restrictions placed upon us, with good will and grace.

Some parts of society are concerned that the rules, have allowed some to pursue their activities, but that other very similar activities, are not permitted.

I speak of Kayak Fishing. I realise that many people do not think that Kayak Fishing, is a popular and widespread, form of recreation and food gathering in NZ.

Let me assure you that Kayak Fishermen are many and widespread, in NZ. Have a look at http://www.kayakfishingnz.com/forum/index.php to gauge our spread.

The nature of our pursuit, is primarily of a well kitted-out and solo, person, within paddling distance, of the shore.

The few rescues that do make the news, are usually Kayakers with no experience, non fishing, just paddling, without common sense abilities.

Enough background. We are concerned that the proposed restrictions under a lvl 3 lock down, are ambiguous and discriminate against Kayak fishermen by not addressing them.

The many who have happily complied with the lvl 4 lockdown restrictions, are concerned that the Government will allow, some form of water sports and recreation, but ban Kayak fishing, as Kayak fishing per se, is not addressed.

i.e. it appears that Stand Up Paddle Boarding and Non Fishing - Kayaking will be allowed.

We understand that boat fishing is a concern due to the possibility of rescue service being required. Presumably this is because boat fishermen can head for the horizon and run out of fuel many kilometres from the coast and thereto, require rescue.

The large majority of Kayak Fishermen, stay within paddling and swimming distance of the shore, wear a life jacket and the Kayaks they use, are virtually unsinkable.

When kayak fishermen do fall off their kayaks, it’s embarrassment that is the problem, not danger.

I exhort you to get a hold of whomsoever is setting the rules for lvl 3 and specifically address Kayak Fishermen, close to shore.

To specifically allow Stand Up Paddle Boarding and Non Fishing - Kayaking, but ban all, non shore based fishing (Kayak Fishermen), will be discriminatory for a lot of Kayak Fishermen voters.

Would it help if we wore Lycra?


ends
Yu Co
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Marc N
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Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:46 am

under the title of "A letter sent to National, Labour MPs - Protests likely. "

I sent the email to the following:

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Yu Co
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Mac50L
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Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:12 am

Wow !!!! Full marks.

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Marc N
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Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:35 pm

Apart from couple of boiler plate - "we're not here right now, your email is important to us.." responses, I have had one helpful response, from Dan Bidois, my local MP - see below

"
Thanks for messaging me and making me aware of this – it does seem ridiculous and we will clarify the situation for level 3 tomorrow should this government announce that we will definitely go there.

Here’s the limited advice I have found out about recreational sports (from: https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-system/al ... recreation):

You can do activities that are local, which you can do safely, and which do not involve interacting with other people, or equipment touched by other people. You should go to your nearest beach or park, not your favourite one. Staying overnight at a bach or holiday home is not permitted.

If you are an experienced surfer, you can go to your local break. If you’re not experienced, don’t surf. If you want to go fishing you can do so from a wharf or the shore, but don’t cast off the rocks or fish from a boat (boating is not allowed). Tramping is ok for day walks on easy trails, same for mountain biking if you are experienced and know the trail. Please be aware of maintaining two metres distance from other people.


There’s so many vague statements just in this, like “experienced”, and what you can do “safely”. In short, if you can go surfing I don’t why you wouldn’t be able to Kayak fish. Let me check with the PM’s office tomorrow and get back to you with more guidance.
"
So here's hoping.
Yu Co
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Mac50L
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Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:04 pm

Good luck Marc.

The problem is all the contradictions. See this, a recommended link -
https://sportnz.cwp.govt.nz/assets/Uplo ... -Table.pdf
And it says you are allowed to kayak in the PDF, Level 3 -
https://sportnz.cwp.govt.nz/assets/Uplo ... -Table.pdf
"Allowed: swimming, surfing, kayaking, canoeing, rowing, windsurfing and paddle boarding, but stay close to shore."

But this link -
https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-system/al ... recreation
"...don’t cast off the rocks or fish from a boat (boating is not allowed)."

What the @#$%* is kayaking if it isn't boating?

Basically who is talking to whom?

sportnz.org.nz is stated to be NZ Govt organisation.

An interesting argument if you are kayak fishing tell them you are allow to kayak but not to boat so fishing from a kayak is not fishing from a boat .... Hmmm...???

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Marc N
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Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:09 pm

I'll await Dan Bidois' response after he's talked to the Prime Minister's Office tomorrow.

But in the interests of Humour::

A Kayak is tupperware, it's a bathtub, it's lumpy sit-down paddle board.

So there, not a boat.
Yu Co
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DocProfit
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Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:14 pm

Great work.


Mac50L
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Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:42 pm

Marc N wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:09 pm
But in the interests of Humour::

A Kayak is tupperware, it's a bathtub, it's lumpy sit-down paddle board.

So there, not a boat.
Wrong. Have a look at this link -
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fu ... s-n1185401

:D

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mitchfam
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Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:08 am

So, as a kayak fisherman in Beachlands for 14 years, theoretically in lvl 3 I can paddle my kayak to Flat island ( 5 min paddle from Sunkist bay ramp) and fish from the shore there.. :y:

lloyd
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Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:21 pm

mitchfam wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:08 am
So, as a kayak fisherman in Beachlands for 14 years, theoretically in lvl 3 I can paddle my kayak to Flat island ( 5 min paddle from Sunkist bay ramp) and fish from the shore there.. :y:
Not for a further week :(

Mahoy
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Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:46 am

Morning everyone,
Hope you’re all keeping safe.
Thanks to Marc and others for looking into what we can and can’t do in level 3.
Does anyone have any further information about it all?
I’m wondering if I should get my rods and gear ready for next week!
Cheers

kingiFiddler
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Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:56 am

They say if I'm looking for loopholes I'm missing the point. In other words, suck it up snowflake. But it's not about loopholes, just seeking the clarity that comes from a few simple yes or no's. But there are many days to go until 3-day so I imagine the answers will come soon.

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mitchfam
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Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:49 am

Watching the news last night there was a big green tick for Kayaks BUT fishing from shore or wharf only.
Based on that I might A) Paddle to Flat island and fish from there or B) Land base from a few spots around here. (which I rarely do), so would be nice to get some clarification prior to Monday 11:59pm.

Also, wonder what the term 'local' entails? For example, does someone from Papatoetoe come out to Beachlands because thats where they usually fish and thats their closest beach? We will see a sudden influx of land based fishermen from out of the area?

kingiFiddler
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Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:55 pm

The level 3 sports specific info is:
https://sportnz.cwp.govt.nz/assets/Uplo ... -Table.pdf

Like you mentioned mitchfam, can kayak but not fish unless from shore :^)

Mac50L
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Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:53 pm

kingiFiddler wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:55 pm
The level 3 sports specific info is:
https://sportnz.cwp.govt.nz/assets/Uplo ... -Table.pdf

Like you mentioned mitchfam, can kayak but not fish unless from shore :^)
Except they say no boating so kayaking isn't classed as boating because you are allowed to do it. Errr...??? So if it isn't boating it can't be on the water by definition so as by definition you aren't on the water because you aren't in a boat, You must be on shore while sitting in your kayak on the water... Yes? So it means you can fish because you aren't in a boat...

Interesting court case there - used to be a series on TV Misleading Cases.

Mac50L
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Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:54 pm

kingiFiddler wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:55 pm
The level 3 sports specific info is:
https://sportnz.cwp.govt.nz/assets/Uplo ... -Table.pdf

Like you mentioned mitchfam, can kayak but not fish unless from shore :^)
Except they say no boating so kayaking isn't classed as boating because you are allowed to do it. Errr...??? So if it isn't boating it can't be on the water by definition so as by definition you aren't on the water because you aren't in a boat, You must be on shore while sitting in your kayak on the water... Yes? So it means you can fish because you aren't in a boat...

Interesting court case there - used to be a series on TV called "Misleading Cases".

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Marc N
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Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:24 pm

Except they say no boating so kayaking isn't classed as boating because you are allowed to do it.
There it is! - I'm a bit of a bush lawyer, on account of having Lawyers and Judges in the family.

I am confident that you can say:
1st level precedence - Kayaking allowed, Surfing, SUP swimming etc.
2nd level precedence - Fishing allowed, land based, - then -
3rd level precedence - not rocks, not boating

Boating in the general sense of the word is, not canoe, not kayak. Look at trademe, kayaks get their own classification. Not under boats, they are classified as sports, Kayaks are sports equipment.

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If it comes to court, the prosecution case will fail, I'd put money on it.

BUT! it's not court we have to worry about, it's the lycra clad lynch mob, waiting on the shore, when we return.

Today, I went down to the dingy lockers at Sulphur Beach in Northcote, to have a squiz. The Authorities have blocked the road off. I was wearing camouflage shorts and a khaki green shirt and jandals, otherwise just a man out for a walk. I got death stares, from each of the 15 or so, lycra clad women with strollers and babies, doing the same walk. I can only think that's because, I look like an outdoors type, and I don't belong to what ever lycra farcebook group they do.

I reckon any cops who are dragged into it, will err on the side of less paper work.

But in all of this, common sense is required, I'm sorry for the chaps, who might do this, but heading out 40km off shore in pursuit of 250Kg striped Marlin is not what's being discussed as reasonable here, I would imagine that 1km or so is the likely limit, for what a cop and/or a judge would see as reasonable.

None of what I've said, is legal advice. But I'm heading out on Tuesday Morning

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Yu Co
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