Greenland Paddle

General Kayak Fishing Discussions
Rob
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:05 am
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Aqua 2/Profish Reload
VHF Call Sign: ZMU6741
Location: Masterton

Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 pm

So the diamond shape cross section is the correct shape?
I have seen professional paddles that appeared to be ovoid.

How does that shape work? I had thought that the rounded edges would pass through the water more efficiently.

How do you use it properly?
What edge leads the stroke... top/bottom, kayak side or away side?



My 3rd paddle... for my daughter (11).
The harder she tries the less cooperative the muscles become. Hopefully this will make paddling more enjoyable.

This one is 650 grams (lots of flex)
1800mm long
Western Red Cedar. Instead of oiling it, I have used Spar varnish. Some report getting blisters from varnish, some rubbish that idea.

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kingiFiddler
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:00 pm

Finally got the chance to try my GP this morning. Certainly a very different paddling experience. I wouldn't know good GP paddling technique from bad, so there's plenty of hours to go before I get the hang of it. But thus far:
Pros:
  • easier on very out of shape muscles
  • so much easier punching into the wind as it doesn't catch the wind anywhere near as much
  • paddling feels more centred in the yak, like more balanced yet it's so easy to adjust grip to get more power out one side or the other if need be
Cons:
  • might be the shape I chose or my technique so I'm not sure this is a genuine con yet but not the same sort of raw power as my euro paddles
Would i use it again? Sure will. There's so much to learn about these things and I get bugger all opportunities these days to try things out but am keen to keep trying and learning.

Both my block plane and 18v planer stayed in the ute today, even though I thought I'd be chewing into the GP making adjustments like sharpening the edges, etc. Too much to get my head around before that, such as why the camber I laminated into it as an experiment turned out to feel the opposite to what I had expected. With camber orientated so tips are more forward than loom I thought it would slip too much and not catch as much thus would not be the better mode. I was wrong. It feels much better and more powerful this way compared to when the paddle is flipped around so the tips are aft of the loom.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:35 pm

:y: :y:

They have about the same 'blade' area as Euros, but it's a gradual catch as the blade is immersed, so you won't get the same "out of the blocks" acceleration as a Euro.
Once you're up to speed though, you're on a par with, or exceeding Euro blades.

The beauty of these is they let you know if you're doing it wrong. As you found with the tips-forward vs tips-behind.

If you get a 'plop' as the blade enters the water, try rounding the tips off and thinning them down. My first one went totally silent when I did that.

HLD
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.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 230
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:08 am

Thanks HD.

The gradual resistance that doesn't put max loads on at the extremities where our bodies can least cope with such loads, rather the load peaks somewhere near the most optimal bio-mechanical position certainly feels easier on the body.

When the wind and a small chop got up on the way back, this one felt much better than my euro, so I think with a bit of tweaking, it will make a fine back-up/rough water companion to stay strapped on the yak and I better build another once I figure out what will work best for flat water.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 230
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Kayak Model: Hornet
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Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:04 pm

Sharpened the lower edges and tips. Made a big difference. Swapped back to a Euro on the paddle back in today. That lasted about 50m. My conversion to a GP is complete. The Euro feels terrible now.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:06 pm

kingiFiddler wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:04 pm
My conversion to a GP is complete. The Euro feels terrible now.
The GL hook goes in deep.
(I've got three loan GL paddles out there - they never come back :lol: )
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 230
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Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:19 pm

Am really surprised more people aren't using them.
I was going to keep my Euros for back-ups but bugger that. Will have to find time to make another GP instead. Well, actually, I've got enough ideas for at least two more so then will have some loaners.

You were right about the power too HD. I think my initial concerns were down to poor technique and my first crack at the GP needing tweaks. I'm not sure what speed the current through Mangawhai estuary is (I'd like to think it's 5 knots or more at mid-tide) but it's quite substantial and the other day I was paddling against it, making similar progress to when I was using my Euro last year when I was actually fit, compared to now when I'm bloody hopelessly out of shape.

Also, the wood gives the paddle some life. It has more feedback than the aluminium of my Euro's. Either that or it's just easier for me to tune into the wood.

I've still got occasional flutter happening down one side but will keep trying to figure that out.

Perhaps we need to make a few of these to whatever sizes/shapes we have dialed in for ourselves, then offer them up to the KFNz community as a travelling loaner/s for others to have a crack and see what they think before sending it on to the next member who wants to try?

kingiFiddler
Posts: 230
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Location: Mangawhai

Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:34 pm

Come to think of it, perhaps we could get a bunch of Greenland paddles to a GTG? It takes a fair bit of time to make one so getting to try out different deigns and sizes and settle on what works for each of us in those conditions could save heaps of time.

Mac50L
Posts: 447
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Location: Banks Peninsula
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Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:30 pm

kingiFiddler wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:19 pm
I've still got occasional flutter happening down one side but will keep trying to figure that out.
They never flutter if used correctly. Shoulder / body rotation, not arm bending. That means during the stroke the paddle has to move away from the kayak (not very far). That's why the edge away from the kayak is a little ahead of the edge nearest the kayak. It is acting as a wing with lift (in the direction you are going) as you rotate your body and bring the paddle back and the kayak forward, the water is coming off the trailing edge (one nearest the kayak) only.

Flutter and the water is alternating between the edges it comes off.

That is also why the edges need to be relatively sharp. The Fairey Delta aircraft, sitting under Concorde in the airforce museum in Yeovilton, you can just about shave with the leading edges of the wing. The compression density of air at the speed of sound and the density of water have some similarity.

Note - I don't intend to shave with my GPs, not that sharp.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 230
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:33 pm

Thanks for that info. Will try to-absorb it and try a few things out next time.


Mac50L
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:44 pm

A bit more on paddle edges.

An English kayaker and writer of kayak how-to books back in 1970s, settled / retired in NZ. He passed on a couple of paddles, one a GP which resides above someone's mantelpiece (nailed to the wall - not mine). The other paddle is a coracle paddle and a friend discussed it with me. We both concluded the same thing - sharpen the edges. They were blunt, the thickness of the paddle blunt.

It was used and timed over a set course. The edges were worked on and the time for distance halved. Admittedly the stroke used is a little different but not too different.

A few years ago at a kayakers gathering at Anakiwi I asked if I could try another paddler's GP. Something odd about it, it didn't seem to work properly. Again, blunt edges.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:51 pm

Mac50L wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:44 pm

A few years ago at a kayakers gathering at Anakiwi I asked if I could try another paddler's GP. Something odd about it, it didn't seem to work properly. Again, blunt edges.
Precisely why I 'hate' my fancy carbon GL blade. Fat rounded edges. I only use it as a spare on the deck of the GL boat because having a Euro strapped there would just be rude :lol:
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
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Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:42 pm

Hairy Little Dwarf wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:51 pm
Mac50L wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:44 pm

A few years ago at a kayakers gathering at Anakiwi I asked if I could try another paddler's GP. Something odd about it, it didn't seem to work properly. Again, blunt edges.
Precisely why I 'hate' my fancy carbon GL blade. Fat rounded edges. I only use it as a spare on the deck of the GL boat because having a Euro strapped there would just be rude :lol:
Could you not add a few more laminations of fibreglass/epoxy and sharpen that?

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:50 pm

Possibly, but in reality I'll always choose wood over the carbon.
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
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Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:39 pm

Fair enough. Wood feels alive. I love that zing and spring as the stroke releases when fanging it. And how it tells me off when I screw up a stroke.

Way back when I had time, money, fitness, and motivation we tried various variations of carbon fibre surfboards. From simple reinforcing of the stringers, to complete CF boards.

Too stiff and lifeless, but dang could we shave a heap of weight off 'em.

For GP1, I just have to perfect the loom shape to suit my pigmy hands and it's a done deal and onto GP2, which will be a crazy build that if it doesn't break on the first outing and become firewood, will be a somewhat ugly stick. Too many ideas and not enough time to try 'em all.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:25 pm

My 'muscle' paddle has much thicker shoulders, this is my Full Throttle paddle I use when really (really) heaving into it, playing in wakes, surf, or just a full cardio workout.
I also have a 'lazy' paddle which is much more delicate, thinner and lighter, and ideal for long distance touring.

The only two GL paddles I have broken (under extreme duress) have both gone on the shoulder - One had a kayak sit on it in a surf launch, the other was pretty sappy wood as that's all I could get at the time, and I never expected much from it anyway.
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
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Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:32 pm

Thanks for that info. Sorry for the slow reply. I missed your reply for some reason. GP2 will be way thinner than GP1. I suspect too thin but should be lightweight and useful for the LSD (long, slow, distance) trips. If it doesn't break.

Have you settled upon a loom cross-section shape? I still can't dial mine in. A rounded square feels less comfortable than a squarish oval but easier to grip when hands get weak nearer the end of long (you'd consider them wee skips but for me they are huge) trip . The more oval I make it, the better it feels initially but it has almost slipped out of my weakening hands when I get tired.

Perhaps it too is mode-dependant - maybe the squarer shape for longer/touring and the more oval shape for short or powered up?

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:25 pm

I prefer a rounded 'square' loom, roughly 35x30 (sized for my paws). Mine are on a very slight angle to the spine of the blade which helps set the angle on the blades. On a new blade, I finish it to the rough shape, paddle, make a note of what need to come off, reshape, repeat.
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 230
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Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:20 pm

Thanks again. That offset loom orientation sounds interesting. Another idea to try out. They are being added to the list faster than I can cross them off. Love it.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:55 pm

You're obviously not making enough paddles :rock:
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

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