Greenland Paddle

General Kayak Fishing Discussions
kingiFiddler
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:03 pm

Hairy Little Dwarf wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:55 pm
Starting to look like an Aleutian blade with that profile 8)
In typical kingiFiddler fashion I got it completely around the wrong way though, as the spine is on the back on mine :-) I'll get there, eventually...maybe. But that does make me think I should look at procuring a curved spokeshave.
Hairy Little Dwarf wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:55 pm
Nice wood working skills and finish, by the way.
Thanks although I was almost laughing while planing and not taking it seriously, resigned to the very real possibility it'd become firewood either sooner or later. So if it actually paddles OK, it'll be pure dumb luck.
Blazer60 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:56 pm
I tip my hat to you chaps who laminate your GPs.
To be honest, laminating is easy. Machinery does most of the work. The human just has to put the laminations around the way they want them orientated.
Blazer60 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:56 pm
I'm having the same thoughts around securing a second GP to the yak so that it doesn't intrude on 'operations.' Eventually I'll make a storm paddle and maybe that'll become the aux outboard.
Looking forward to any ideas you have for securing the paddle, and to seeing what storm paddle you come up with. I'm surprised by the difference to how a paddle feels depending on the conditions. GP2 is the best in calm water but against wind, current and slop GP1 is better.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:53 pm

To confirm what HLD and probably others would already have known. I got the darn GP3.1 around backwards. What I was thinking was the back face actually paddled better than the front face on a short flap around the estuary tonight. So, now I'm even more confused than normal.

GP3.0 had straight, flat faces and didn't paddle as well as GP2. But what I thought was the back of 3.1 has nothing but two flat, straight faces and it paddles well. But they are bevelled to a spine so maybe that is holding up water that would otherwise sweep across the face. It held more water than what I thought was the front face, and it also has more power than GP2.

Using what I thought was the front face of GP3.1, it slips through the water more than all of them. That bell shaped profile or the slight parabolic rocker must be the reason water doesn't find much resistance as it moves over the blade. Both ways paddle smoothly; sweet entry, sweet exit.

It's just that the rounded face is incredibly slippery and the bevelled/spined face has the most power of them all. It's almost like the perfect combo of power when you want it, but easy going slippery face for just cruis'n. Although, I don;t think I want to power up the splined face completely because it's got some flex to it given how thin it's getting. Will need a few more sessions with it to get a feel for if I am going to break it by going hard out.

Still can't get my head around why it feels like it does but what a great surprise.

Mac50L
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:27 am
Kayak Make: SeaLand
Kayak Model: Mac50L
Location: Banks Peninsula
Contact:

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:23 pm

kingiFiddler wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:53 pm
To confirm what HLD and probably others would already have known. I got the darn GP3.1 around backwards.
From your description I'm confused. Sitting with the paddle in the water, the humped surface of the paddle should be towards the bow of the kayak. The flat face of the paddle aft.

Then. like the wing of an aircraft, as it moves from where it is placed in the water, as close to the kayak as possible, and moves away from the kayak as you rotate your body through the stroke, it gives "lift" in the direction the kayak is moving. Not much, actually probably nil lift in the direction you are moving BUT, that "trying to move forward" is like a wing giving lift.

The Aleutian paddle is flat on one side and most aircraft wings are that way. The Inuit paddle (Greenland) has a symmetrical foil shape as found on aerobatic aircraft. Advantage? It gives lift which ever way up - providing the leading edge has positive incidence.

The Wing racing paddle was developed because, using body rotation and not arm bending during the stroke, the paddle had to move away from the kayak during the stroke.

BUT - the distance moved away from the hull is not great. The time in the water is not great. Getting the leading edge incidence (angle of attack) right gives maximum grip on the water - which is actually what it is all about - gripping the water and pulling yourself (kayak) past the paddle.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:37 pm

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Untitled-1.jpg (26.88 KiB) Viewed 985 times

Mac50L
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:27 am
Kayak Make: SeaLand
Kayak Model: Mac50L
Location: Banks Peninsula
Contact:

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:58 am

kingiFiddler wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:37 pm
Untitled-1.jpg
The lower surface to the front. As shown in the picture, and if an aircraft wing, the aircraft would be flying inverted.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:28 pm

Mac50L wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:58 am
kingiFiddler wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:37 pm
Untitled-1.jpg
The lower surface to the front. As shown in the picture, and if an aircraft wing, the aircraft would be flying inverted.
Thanks. My next one should have a profile that mimics an aircraft wing. Although, perhaps I'm paddling incorrectly because there isn't much of a sweep that would bring the wing theory into play. There is some, naturally, but not much. I guess the goal is to harness as much of that as possible? I took the morning off work and went for a 5 hr paddle this morning, most of which was with GP3.1. There's not much horizontal sweep in the stroke, rather the paddle just plunges and follows a line that feels natural for me (and the width of the yak). There's also a very fine line and limit to how much I can orientate the leading edge of the blade to seek lift like an aircraft wing.

I also need to correct something I posted earlier about this GP3.1 stroke exit. I said it was smooth on both the curved and splined/bevelled faces. If I power up the splined/bevelled face, the exit isn't smooth, no matter how much I try to back the power off at the back of the stroke and gently exit the water. I think it is because the power generated (splined/bevelled face grabbing water) is so much that it loads the blade up too much for the thickness and it flexes too much, and that flex snaps back when the power comes off. It's very difficult to find that balance between as much power as possible, and still having a gradual , smooth exit. Sorry if I'm not explaining it very well. Might be one of those things people need to feel.

To follow up on an earlier point about speed. I was at about 85% effort, towing a softbait, and as far as I can work out via Google Earth, was doing 3.75 knots over a 1.5km patch on the way back. That was with GP3.1 and the gently curved blade face rather than the bevelled/splined face of the blade. I couldn't paddle it the other way around because of fears I would snap the paddle if I went too hard because that splined face loads up big time.

When I'm done learning from this paddle, I'll take it for a max effort paddle, using the bevelled/splined face and see if it snaps. I'm pretty sure it will.

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sk8e8
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Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:13 am
Kayak Make: Extreme
Kayak Model: Game King
Location: South Auckland

Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:55 am

Any update? While I don't paddle any more, and I'm completely useless at anything like it, I've enjoyed following this discussion.
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kingiFiddler
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:42 pm

Have been using GP2.1 because I donated it to the KFNZ gear library (which, by the way, seems to be a resounding flop of an idea) and wanted to eek out as many learnings as possible until (if ever it seems) someone else wants to use it. I like it much more than the flaying saucer (GP3.1). But will take the latter out and see if I can snap it. Can't say I totally understand that paddle. It's a mystery. We need a GP users/makers get-together so we can swap paddles and hopefully I can pick the brains of those far more learned than I in these matters and see if they can get their heads around that paddle.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Posts: 6966
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:39 am
Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet

Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:17 pm

If you ever make it up as far as Paihia or Keri, bring the sticks - I'd be interested to play with them.
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:39 am

Sounds great. Yes please. Will be in the Far North very soon and for a few weeks so can bring the paddle/s with me (no room for yak, darn-it) and hopefully I can find a day/time that works for us both to drop 'em off. Even if the flaying saucer defies any reasonable explanation, it should be good for a laugh. I did make up a paddle tube from DWV pipe in anticipation of sending GP2.1 away if someone requested it from the library and I think dedant may have been keen on that at one stage but it kinda hit a dead end. So, if it's easier, I can send one or both paddles to you in that tube instead of us trying to find time. It does mean though that I won't be able to pick your brain, which I guess could be considered a lucky escape because once I get started with questions they tend to rush out of me like a burst dam.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Posts: 6966
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:39 am
Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet

Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:26 am

Pack the fishing gear when you come up - I might turn up at the water with one yak too many, BYO paddle though ;)
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:42 pm
Kayak Make: Phoenix
Kayak Model: Hornet
Location: Mangawhai

Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:38 pm

That sounds fantastic, thanks. Will see what I can squeeze in the ute.

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Blazer60
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:51 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Reload
VHF Call Sign: ZMW5911 - Blazer60
Location: Whitby, Wellington

Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:51 pm

A little easter project, first storm paddle entering final stages of the production line. Nothing special really, just a bonsai'd, shoulderless GP.
20180401_151240.jpg
Blazer60
Viking Reload ZMW5911

dedant
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:11 pm
Kayak Make: Stealth
Kayak Model: Fisha 500
VHF Call Sign: ZMU5052
Location: West Auckland

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:56 pm

I am still interested in trying the GP out. But the thought of turning right back on to sh1 on good Friday with all that traffic put me off. Coming north again next Friday, possibly call in then if I'm not too late.
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Glass is Class.. dedant

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FatherOfMany
Posts: 1755
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:34 am
Kayak Make: Old Town
Kayak Model: Predator XL Petrol
VHF Call Sign: ZMW9858
Location: Papakura, Auckland
Contact:

Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:54 am

Okay, I give up... For months (might be years) I've ignored this topic, but it just keeps on coming back. So I clicked on it and looked at the last page's topics assuming you guys have solved world hunger and have moved on to discussing how to preserve Trump's toupe after his eventual demise. But no... you're still on topic...

How can there be 7 pages of discussing a crooked piece of stick?
----------------------------------------------------
Old Town Predator XL
OK Tetra 12
Old Town Predator 13
OK Prowler Elite 4.5 #1, OK Prowler Elite 4.5 #2

PB: Snapper=66cm, J.D.=39cm, Gurnard=38cm

VHF Callsign: ZMW 9858

Kayak Fishing Auckland

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Blazer60
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:51 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Reload
VHF Call Sign: ZMW5911 - Blazer60
Location: Whitby, Wellington

Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:53 pm

FatherOfMany wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:54 am

How can there be 7 pages of discussing a crooked piece of stick?
Come across to the illuminated side FOM. It is not unlike possessing (or being possessed by) the conduit of power that was/is the staff of Gandalf the Grey. They empower you! :lol:
Blazer60
Viking Reload ZMW5911

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