Greenland Paddle

General Kayak Fishing Discussions
Mac50L
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Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:38 pm

Hairy Little Dwarf wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:21 am
Go for the KASK laminated version.
Thank you, vindicated. There is a slightly extended version on my website and a link to it on the KASK site.
I sell the first paddle from each batch
Gives me an idea of what to charge if I do the same. So it sounds like encouraging a lot of new GP users.
Plus, you can mix up the laminates from different boards to get nice contrasts
If the laminates are rotated end for end, it should stiffen the paddle, grains in opposite directions, not that I've checked.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:59 pm

Mac50L wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:38 pm
Hairy Little Dwarf wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:21 am
Go for the KASK laminated version.
Thank you, vindicated. There is a slightly extended version on my website and a link to it on the KASK site.
I sell the first paddle from each batch
Gives me an idea of what to charge if I do the same. So it sounds like encouraging a lot of new GP users.
Plus, you can mix up the laminates from different boards to get nice contrasts
If the laminates are rotated end for end, it should stiffen the paddle, grains in opposite directions, not that I've checked.
I have no problems giving credit or directing kudos your way for the laminate design Sandy. :y: It's my default construction technique now, and it's the page I send people to when they ask.

I've done a fair few 1-piece paddles, with eyebrow-raised sawmill dude waiting patiently through the "No...no...no...Hmmm...no...yes...no...no...) of me going through the racks, and to find halfway through construction that the selected wood doesn't actually 'want' to be a full paddle is disheartening, although they're always quickly repurposed to a storm, "Ladies" paddle or couple of norsaq (I've long dispensed with pencil lines, preferring to let the grain tell me if there's a paddle in there). At least with the laminate version you have a 99% chance of seeing any potential issues before you buy. As I said to Mrs. Dwarf in one of my philosophical moments, "We're the only people to see this wood" as another sliver came off with the spokeshave.

I've seen many converts to GL paddles by letting them try them for as long as they need, months sometimes, and then freely paying what the comfort and ease is worth to THEM, and that they can afford. My typical demographic is "not so young" or "wrist/shoulder injury" and to date, I've never had a paddle returned in favour of euro blades. I've let a fair few be "forgotten about" when I knew the person couldn't afford it too.... I don't make them to make a profit.
Making paddles is really cathartic for me. Not going into details, but when I need to, I make paddles. I often spend a weekend shaping a paddle, only to take it with me on a subsequent trip the next week and wish it well as I let it float away for hopefully another kayaker to find. I do know of one that was found and is proudly mounted above a local big name yachties fireplace now as a "Found an unusual canoe paddle". There's about another six on/in the water/beaches/mangroves in the Bay somewhere.
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.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

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Blazer60
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Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:28 am

Hairy Little Dwarf wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:59 pm
I often spend a weekend shaping a paddle, only to take it with me on a subsequent trip the next week and wish it well as I let it float away for hopefully another kayaker to find.
That's a cool thing to do. How about dropping one off into the West Auckland Current, I'll see if I can snag it somewhere around Kapiti.
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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:18 am

Blazer60 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:28 am
Hairy Little Dwarf wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:59 pm
I often spend a weekend shaping a paddle, only to take it with me on a subsequent trip the next week and wish it well as I let it float away for hopefully another kayaker to find.
That's a cool thing to do. How about dropping one off into the West Auckland Current, I'll see if I can snag it somewhere around Kapiti.
In a couple of days, I'll just throw one up in the air, you can catch it as it blows past :lol:
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
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Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:02 pm

Chickened out on wafer-thin...for now. Will see how these go and compare (bit of experimenting going on) before shave them down more.
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GP23Full.jpg
GP23Tips.jpg

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Blazer60
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Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:34 pm

:y: They look great, the mix of timbers is standout stuff. :y:
Blazer60
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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:44 pm

:inlove:
Should be able to squeeze 4kts out of the Phoenix with those :y:
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
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Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:22 pm

Thanks fellas. Am hanging on by my fingernails to the freight train of GP ideas in my head. Will surely be some delightfully catastrophic failures before I kick this GP habit. Bring 'em on.
Once more unto the breach...

WEE WILLY
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:16 pm

HLD said "Just some random Dwarvish thoughts." on matters concerning Trees & wood? :!:
<*))))><
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kingiFiddler
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:08 pm

Had a chance to test the new paddles. GP2 (the darker cedar) is smooth and a real joy to paddle. First time with cedar so a very different flex to my kauri/rimu GP1. Haven't settled on a final loom shape but very happy with how it paddles. Fully powered up it's got a really neat 'fsssk' on exit. Not super loud but I guess the noise is indicative of inefficiencies but it sounds great as I 'fisssk, fisssk, fissk' my way along and pretty good speed (for me anyway). It didn't give any indication of breaking, which makes me confident I could go thinner without snapping it (but then have to try to maintain the curves with less material to work with - another question to be answered with another paddle or two in the future). Lovely and silent and smooth entry (pretty sharp tips though so who knows if they'll last).

GP3 is OK but noticeably rougher paddler. It has very few curved surfaces, appeasing the inner contrarian. I'll sharpen the tips to match GP2 and see if that makes enough difference to keep with the flat faces. If not, it'll get a make-over to get some sexy curves.

Overall, have learned plenty and still left with many questions. So, the best possible outcome, me thinks.

*editing to muse* Perhaps it's time to build some supports that fit into the rod holders and will hold a GP vertically so I can test plenty of paddles in one session to compare them, and give onlookers one more thing to laugh at. It was tricky accommodating four paddles on the yak for the testing. I don't like where they strap to the yak like conventional paddles. They tend to get in the way of the stroke a wee bit. I'm hoping to get rid of the spare euro paddle and take a spare GP instead. Perhaps if I can get the spare GP vertical out of a rod holder, the flag can go on that instead. That'll be 2m above the waterline instead of 1m. Gotta be safer, right? ;-) Probably too much windage though.


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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:00 pm

The hiss is cavitation. Possibly due to paddle being too square against the water, or not 'spearing' the water on the catch and entrapping air to be dragged along?

If you're doing a dedicated paddle test run, you could mount the paddles in a cradle on the yak centreline in front of you, you'll get a bit of a bowsprit look to the boat although everything will be out of the way of the stroke.

Out of interest, did you get a measured speed?
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:47 pm

Thanks HLD.

If I screw up the entry, or, especially with GP1 before I sharpened and rolled the edges a bit more, I both feel and hear the cavitation through at least the first half of the stroke. Boy does it feel ugly. The noise GP2 makes upon exit is different than that and it's so smooth throughout the whole stroke I don't think it's air, unless it's tiny amounts much smaller than I'm used to?

Perhaps not enough curve along the blade at the tip, or I'm releasing too late in the stroke (short arse with a longer than used-to paddle maybe gives me too flat an exit angle without compensating with more curve at the tips)?

This is what I am getting such a kick out of - trying to solve these GP riddles/mysteries/enigmas.

One of the next crazy ideas I have is to either start with a much thicker paddle and exaggerate the longitudinal curve and see what that does - whether it will have an impact similar to the bow I laminated into GP1- or laminate the rocker/curve into a thin-ish paddle.

As to speed, I haven't a clue sorry. Against mid-tide at Mangawhai estuary it slows but certainly doesn't halt comfortable forward progress. Is there a GPS app for the phone that you guys can recommend please that I can take with me on a speed run at slack water and finally work out how feeble my paddling is?

Thanks for that suggestion on the location of the paddles. Out of the way but easy to get to. :y:

You mentioned a while back using epiglue. Any reason why that and not just plain Jane epoxy resin? Is there something about the week long cure time that suits a GP better? i haven't had any probs with epoxy resin...yet. i realise epiglue is epoxy anyway but just wondering what the distinctions are in respect of GP's.

Another thing about these, my first cedar paddles, is they suck up oil (I'm using linseed) way more than native timbers I'm more used to. Does anyone use a film-forming first or second coat to seal it before finishing with oil? Or is that asking for trouble down the line?

The main trouble with GP2 is it paddles the best of the three and now I'm even more paranoid about shaping the loom to get it right. Might use GP3 as the test bed for that and save GP2 from death by a thousand plane cuts.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:10 pm

kingiFiddler wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:47 pm
As to speed, I haven't a clue sorry. Against mid-tide at Mangawhai estuary it slows but certainly doesn't halt comfortable forward progress. Is there a GPS app for the phone that you guys can recommend please that I can take with me on a speed run at slack water and finally work out how feeble my paddling is?
Just take two marks on Google Earth and do a time/distance. Ideally over at least 2km as that will show you a more honest cruise speed )
kingiFiddler wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:47 pm
You mentioned a while back using epiglue. Any reason why that and not just plain Jane epoxy resin? Is there something about the week long cure time that suits a GP better? i haven't had any probs with epoxy resin...yet. i realise epiglue is epoxy anyway but just wondering what the distinctions are in respect of GP's.
I use Epiglue as a) it's a recommended marine system b) The hard set gives a little more strength and c) it's a product I know well. Once glued, I start shaping at around 12Hrs (or less in this weather) as it knocks seven bells out of my blades when fully cured.
kingiFiddler wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:47 pm
Another thing about these, my first cedar paddles, is they suck up oil (I'm using linseed) way more than native timbers I'm more used to. Does anyone use a film-forming first or second coat to seal it before finishing with oil? Or is that asking for trouble down the line?
First feed is 50:50 turps/linseed, and keep touching up extra thirsty bits as they draw it in. Once the takeup slows, I go neat boiled linseed, starting with heavy coats and easing off as the paddle settles down. Rub it down and leave it in the sun for a few hours before putting it in the rack for a week to do its thing. If you're using Cedar, then a solid oiling probably isn't all that necessary. Tung oil is another possibility, but I have no experience with that.
kingiFiddler wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:47 pm
The main trouble with GP2 is it paddles the best of the three and now I'm even more paranoid about shaping the loom to get it right. Might use GP3 as the test bed for that and save GP2 from death by a thousand plane cuts.
Every paddle is different, it is an interesting experience taking a blade as far as it'll go before the dreaded rifle-shot.

I currently run two blades, a sexy little 550g job for touring, and one that looks like Herman Munster as my heavy-duty blade for really rough water or just redlining it across the water (I still carry a spare on board, but , well, it's a Euro)
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:30 pm

Thanks for all that, and all your help. Wow, 550gms must feel like nothing until blade hits water.

Mac50L
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:24 pm

GP and not GP
A couple of days ago, a school using the local 2 wakas (catamaran style) was paddling near us so I went over for a look. At 5 knots (at the power output I was producing and from a yacht timing me a few months before) they could just keep up but that was mainly due to their paddlers as with a much longer (twice?) waterline they should have been able to leave me behind.

I'd been given a Wing paddle so tried that yesterday. It was immediately obvious why the Inuits never used one, every seal in Greenland would have heard it coming. Nothing I did quietened it and a very vertical short stroke was necessary. Probably as fast as the GP but very uncomfortable to use. I had it at about 205 cm and still it felt miles too long. Note - Wing paddles vary a lot so this is not typical of all.

For a short spare paddle you could make a Storm paddle. I've always thought they were more likely to be hunting paddles as they are short and less obvious to any seals you approach. The blades are about the same but the loom is one or two hands width long. One hand-width will work. You use a sliding stroke so one hand is halfway up a blade while the other is in the normal place. Next stroke the hands have slid to the alternate places. You almost throw it from hand to hand. Not too hard when used using it.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:52 pm

Not a lot of room on the Phoenix for a storm paddle above decks though, hence my split Euro inboard. At the end of the day, it's just to get you home - I have paddled 5km back into 15kts and a cresting 1.5m sea with a broken GL rather than dig out the Euro...Towing a sea kayaker who was struggling.
Got some serious street cred with that one :lol:

Have a couple of storms and carry one on deck as spare when in the SiK, and often use it when rolling if I feel myself start to lever too much on the big paddle.
Good paddles for kids too.
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

kingiFiddler
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Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:57 pm

Might see if there is some way to clip the blade of a GP into a rail blazer or some other plastic clamp so it can project out the bow like a bowsprit as mentioned few posts back. Will just have to check can get the line around it when fighting a fish. I have my split cheap euro as a spare at the mo but would rather not have it on the yak.

Having previously noted GP3 was a test of flat spots and sharp transitions, and that it didn't paddle as well as GP2, I hereby and with a wee chuckle introduce GP3.1, codenamed flaying saucer.

A while back I was researching cyclone dust extraction for the workshop and learned about the bell end shapes on, well, bells, and trumpets etc as being the most efficient air-flow shapes. So, with that in mind and noting how GP1 (with the rocker laminated into it) felt so much better with positive rocker compared to negative rocker(or the other way around) I thought I'd :
  • add blade rocker to the face (sweeping it to the rear), making it as parabolic as the available wood allowed
  • I was going to plane the back of the blade flat but bevelled it for more meat where I assume it counts
  • profiled the cross sectional shape of the blade front to take as much of the flat spots out as I could and match a bell end as much as possible.
The edges are thin and sharp (I went as sharp as it feels my fingers will accept when paddling it) and I can't see them holding up, but one of my next experiments will be with ABS blade edges and perhaps tips, which should take knocks better than cedar. It's by no means a refined job but for me has some funky things going on. Anyone care predict how it will paddle or if it will last? I ask because I have no idea, but am looking forward to finding out.
Attachments
bladeFace.jpg
bladeSideRocker.jpg
bladeSideRocker.jpg (4.2 KiB) Viewed 795 times
bladeTipProfile.jpg
bladeTipProfile.jpg (18.21 KiB) Viewed 795 times
bladeTipRear.jpg
bladeTipRear.jpg (20.58 KiB) Viewed 795 times
Last edited by kingiFiddler on Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:55 pm

Starting to look like an Aleutian blade with that profile 8)

Nice wood working skills and finish, by the way.
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

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Blazer60
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Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:56 pm

I tip my hat to you chaps who laminate your GPs. They look lovely.
I'm having the same thoughts around securing a second GP to the yak so that it doesn't intrude on 'operations.' Eventually I'll make a storm paddle and maybe that'll become the aux outboard.
Blazer60
Viking Reload ZMW5911

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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:24 pm

To be honest, I use a split euro on the fishing yak
End of the day, the spare motor is to get you home.
Image
.................... "Flying Mango".......... [Up for sale, $1400]

Phoenix Hornet - Specialty Assault Craft

Dad! Dad! Look at his fish! It's way bigger than anything you've EVER caught! - Nosey 7-8yo boy on opening my icebox to father strapping down his $XXX Stabicraft 759(?) - Gold. Pure Gold.

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