Soft Bait Rod

General Kayak Fishing Discussions
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Alex123
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Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:38 am

Looking for a new soft bait setup, wanted to no if you guys have any good suggestions for rods that are good of a kayak. I no what reel im going to get (always go shimano). When it comes to rods tho theres thousands. Iv bought a few expensive rods before after being talked into it from the guys in the shop and most sit in my garage as i prefer using some of my cheaper ones. Happy to spend the money but want to here from the guys out there using them.
Cheers

dedant
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Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:13 am

A few guys on here are using K-lab rods , Awondering will sort you out ;)
My favourite I am using though is the Ocean Angler Microwave Guide rod. And I have liked the Shimano Backbone Elite as well ( when I'm not breaking them :$ )
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Glass is Class.. dedant

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Snap 4T
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Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:24 am

You cant go wrong with 24T from K-lab
I use them for softbait and strayline.
They are my favorite rods by far compare to my other well known brands rods.

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Paddle
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Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:13 pm

To be honest I use whatever cheapy I can find for a good price... then I don't feel so bad about the treatment they get in the kayak!
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Badger
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Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:13 pm

Yeah PM Awondering.

I've bought 3 of his rods now and for a noob like me, you can't beat getting good honest advice and quality service.

I'm sure there are plenty of other brands that would do nicely but not sure you'd get the same service.

rainbow
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Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:43 pm

I use Okuma 3-6kg and 6-10kg XFactor rods for soft baiting and 5-8kg overhead for all my bottom meat hunting. As fishing writer I could easily get dearer ones but since I have fished with the XFactor rods now for a good number of years and have still not managed to break one despite hauling out mega weights I stick with them. I even rolled over both rods sticking out of the rear rod holders when I crashed on a steep cobble beach without damage. They are made of graphite/e glass and bend rather than break. Cheep too.
High modulus graphite rods might be a tad lighter but the higher the rating the more brittle they are. I have tested dozens of ultra high modulus fly rods (up to 66mill/lbs psi) and have broken more than I can remember.

Rainbow

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awondering
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Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:12 pm

Little more to it than weight of the blank, being brittle is not a fault or the product but the nature of it, high content carbon do not suit heavy handed anglers.
Stick with the third third third rule and they will serve you well for a long time, the deeper you fish the worse low volume carbon rods will fish, lack hook setting response and the soft bait action is not presented as we'll, tip to bait movement is reduced, list goes on...
Still you can buy a $5 barbie set from the warehouse and catch fish, but there is a common denominator among anglers that have consistent results !!! They tend not to use gear that lets them down when it really counts !!!

rainbow
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Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:56 pm

I am not talking about high volume carbon but high modulus carbon, which is not the same as one can build a 100% carbon blank with low modulus carbon. The high modulus carbon fibres are stiffer (but more brittle) and therefore less is needed to make a rod for a certain casting weight which will have a thinner diameter blank and/or thinner walls. On the downside they break easier in a tight bend i.e. when point loaded. You are quite correct with some of your comments, at least in theory as most kayak fishers do quite well with lesser gear. It is easy to talk yourself into or more likely get talked into by a tackle salesman that an expensive rod will make all the difference. No more so than in fly fishing where legions of bum casters fork out $1200+ for high end fly rods but surprise, surprise are still the same bum casters thereafter.

Rainbow

Badger
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Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:52 pm

I'm a novice angler and you could write what I know about rod construction on the back of a stamp so take my comments with a pinch of salt.

Therefore for me it often comes down to a question of how stuff feels.

The first rod I got was also an Okuma 6-10kg XFactor that I got as part of a $99 combo. It was great to learn with and I'll be keeping it in case Mrs B wants to fish as she'd do well to break it. Really, I couldn't fault it.

As I got more used to landing fish and getting the hang of avoiding a high stick I decided to treat myself to a carbon rod, fully expecting it to snap on me. The difference is like chalk and cheese, my new rods are a pleasure to use and 'feel' nicer all round than the Okuma, mostly due to the construction of the grips.

Oh and I'm not trying to blindly plug K-Labs rods here, but as a novice there's a reason why I've bought three. They feel better than what I had, they catch fish, I get bloody good service/advice and I don't need to pay huge bucks. Yes I could probably achieve the same result with one of the other big brands but when I do finally break one I also know that I'll get looked after in terms of repairs etc.

Jeez I've waffled a bit there but that's the fishing noob's input Alex. Decisions decisions aye....

Douugie
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:45 am

Just buy one of each I say :devil:
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awondering
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:53 am

rainbow wrote:I am not talking about high volume carbon but high modulus carbon, which is not the same as one can build a 100% carbon blank with low modulus carbon. The high modulus carbon fibres are stiffer (but more brittle) and therefore less is needed to make a rod for a certain casting weight which will have a thinner diameter blank and/or thinner walls.


Should have been a little clearer, I was speaking to the masses and trying to keep it simple...

And yes you are so right re up selling, sales person will tell you its got this and that, but we asked what it actually is, that's when you hear the bullshit...

Rods are very subjective, like a lot of things, something suits someone and not another, but sometimes you need to go down that path to find out and it can be a costly exercise...

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FatherOfMany
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:14 am

Badger wrote:Yeah PM Awondering.

I've bought 3 of his rods now and for a noob like me, you can't beat getting good honest advice and quality service.

I'm sure there are plenty of other brands that would do nicely but not sure you'd get the same service.
+1 for great service from AW.

I PM'ed him some time ago about getting a rod and explained that I was overwhelmed by a then current topic similar to this one. Instead of just blindly selling me a rod, he ended up giving me some general fishing advice instead. Not too many "salesmen" who'll tell you that you don't need to spend money on their product right at that moment.
I did go back to him later and am now I happy owner of a KLabs rod.
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MadMike
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:27 am

Badger wrote: As I got more used to landing fish and getting the hang of avoiding a high stick I decided to treat myself to a carbon rod, fully expecting it to snap on me. The difference is like chalk and cheese, my new rods are a pleasure to use and 'feel' nicer all round than the Okuma, mostly due to the construction of the grips.
Ok Point i will make here is that the X-factor is not the only Okuma rod on the Market. In fact it's one of the lower ones, It is a composite graphite rod but is not a high modulus rod... The Nano Matrix is one of the high Modulus offerings from Okuma using Nano resin Alps Components etc...

AW while your calling people in the shops Muppet keep in mind that most off the shelf rods don't have a lot of reliable information available, in most cases the only guff on a lot of shelf rods is based on the components and very rarely states the modulus component

IM 6 graphite is approx. 33 million modulus
IM7 graphite is approx. 44 million modulus
IM8 graphite is approx. 51 million modulus

Generally speaking the higher the modulus, the more expensive the rod will be.
There's far more to a rod than modulus ratings, There's far more involved in the design of a rod than the raw carbon fiber itself. the resin used, the mandrel, taper, and even the weave used and lots more. There's plenty of high modulus rods on the market that are to be honest quite crap. Some of the best I have used to date are the likes of the GLX Loomis which price wise makes people toes curl lol, and thats by know means the more expensive end of rods.

Best way to sort good from bad is go and bend them. string through is definitely better than a tip bend as well

So as you were!
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awondering
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:03 am

Yer Mike maybe a generalization of sales people, but I just struggle with some of the BS, so its like dont BS a BSer :-)

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awondering
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:29 am

Alright here is something to read for those interested, >>>

One thing to remember Composite is that a mix of products, IE a lot in here are familar 24T carbon composite Eqiv to IM6 (remember there is no industry standard) but there are range of 24T carbon blanks that vary hugely in the amount of carbon used, there is nothing sinister in it, the more epoxy used the more durable the rod will become, great yes, But for light lure fishing no! lose sensitivity, blanks become lazy nowhere as responsive etc etc

Here is a couple of paragraphs from a man who should know a thing or two about rods>>>

IM6, IM7 and IM8 are the trade numbers used by the Hexcel Corp. to identify their product and is not an industry quality or material standard, although the Hercules Fibers produced by the Hexcel Corp. are the benchmark that most companies use to compare their materials. The confusion is compounded because a number of rod manufacturers use materials produced by companies other than Hexcel and yet identify their rods as being IM6, IM7 and IM8, which by itself means nothing.

What an angler needs to understand is how the word “modulus” pertains to graphite rods. Modulus is not a thread count, as many would have you believe. Modulus basically equates to stiffness. The higher the modulus, the stiffer the material is by weight, meaning less material is needed to achieve the same stiffness of lower-modulus materials. This results in a lighter product.


Stiffness also equates to responsiveness – that is, the rod’s ability to store and release energy. The higher the modulus, the faster and more consistent a rod is able to store and release its energy, which enables an angler to cast farther and more accurately.

You cannot talk about modulus without including strain rate, or the measured strength of the material. While modulus is reported in millions, strain rate is reported in thousands. An acceptable strain rate for a fishing rod is 680,000 or higher. A graphite rod made from IM6 Hercules Fibers will have a modulus of 36 million and a strain rate of 750,000.

With the original materials used for graphite rods, as the modulus rate increased, the strain rate would decrease, resulting in the rods being more acceptable to failures because of brittleness. However, through the advancements of materials, technology and engineering design, companies are able to produce high-modulus, high-strain-rate rods. These new high-tech fishing rods are super-light, responsive, and extremely sensitive and strong.

But the misconception of brittleness still plagues them, and the reason for this is because as the modulus gets higher, the less material is needed and therefore used. This means that the wall thickness in the blank, which is basically a hollow tube, is thinner. “Remember what I said before – weight is the deterrence to performance,”

GOOD STOREY>>>
“I had a gentleman come in with a fly rod that broke near the handle, and he was asking for a new rod. I examined his broken rod and knew from the break – it was splintered – that his rod broke from abuse. So I asked him how it broke, and the man, being sincere, told me it broke while fighting a fish. I explained that it would be nearly impossible for the rod to break this way. But to be fair, (I told him) if he could break another rod the same way, I would give him three brand-new rods of his choice, but if he couldn’t, that he would pay for the repairs, and the man agreed.

“So I took him out in the back by the shipping docks and handed him an identical rod. With the rod in his hands, I grabbed the blank and asked him to apply the same pressure he was using when it broke. The man was applying a great deal of stress on the rod, and it wasn’t breaking. So I asked if he wanted to apply even more pressure, and the man responded that he didn’t think he could, but he insisted that is how his rod broke.

“So then I told him, ‘We are going to break this rod, so that it breaks just like yours did.’ I then laid the blank on a rubber mat and I kneeled on it by the handle, and we tried it again but it didn’t break. Then I laid it on the concrete and kneeled on it. Examining the rod, you couldn’t see it was damaged, but this time the rod broke just like his did, and the man simply asked where he needed to pay to get his rod repaired.”

The point of this story is that these high-modulus, high-strain-rate, thin-walled rods are extremely strong and are highly unlikely ever to break under normal use. Almost all rods are damaged by other means – an angler accidentally stepping on them, hitting them against a hard surface while casting, or storing them where a toolbox or some other heavy object can slide into them. Then, with the damage done, the rod collapses while under the stress of fighting a fish. So while high-modulus, high-strain-rate rods are not brittle, they do require more care in storage and transport.

There is a graphite rod made for every angler and their lifestyle. Composite blends (a mix of graphite and fiberglass) can take a lot of abuse. Intermediate modulus rods (33 million to 42 million) with high strain rates (700,000 or higher) still offer a lot of sensitivity and responsiveness and are quite durable. The high-modulus, high-strain-rate, extremely light rods are usually a rod manufacturer’s high-end product. These rods are the ultimate in responsiveness and sensitivity, and they cost a lot more than the average fishing rod. As with anything that costs this type of money, you would want to take a lot better care of it, including using protective cases to store and transport them around.

Hopefully, you now have a much better understanding of graphite as it pertains to fishing rods, and as a result, understand the care you need to employ with their use, storage and transport. Finally, armed with your new found knowledge, you will be able to make a much more informed decision the next time you purchase your next graphite rod.

MadMike
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:00 pm

The point of this story is that these high-modulus, high-strain-rate, thin-walled rods are extremely strong and are highly unlikely ever to break under normal use. Almost all rods are damaged by other means – an angler accidentally stepping on them, hitting them against a hard surface while casting, or storing them where a toolbox or some other heavy object can slide into them. Then, with the damage done, the rod collapses while under the stress of fighting a fish. So while high-modulus, high-strain-rate rods are not brittle, they do require more care in storage and transport.
99% of broken rods don't come down to rod failure but more user failure. The benefits of High Modulus vs the like of E-glass far out way the risks of breakage as like you say care is taken to prevent bruising etc.
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awondering
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:25 pm

No one like to hear the words "user fault"....

love 2 fish
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Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:25 pm

There was a thread a year or so ago and after reading that i braught a shamano catana $75 off marine deals there were a few regular posters on here that caught good fish used them after they had broken a expensive rod and recomended them on that thread. I haven't got a k labs rod... yet it is on the list but happy with my set ups ive got. I have seen a 3-5kg k labs rod deal to some good kingfish tho so up to 17.5kg and on another trip land a dozen or so rat kings so either ither cant go wrong
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