Is more expensive better?

General Kayak Fishing Discussions
SmallBoatBigOcean
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:25 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Profish 400 Lite
Location: Tauranga

Sun May 10, 2015 9:05 pm

Hi Guys

I've had a mate who has been interested in kayak fishing since I picked my PF 400 up a couple of weeks ago. After taking it out for a fish this weekend at Maketu (and turtling in front of the packed cafe on the beach :lol: ) he is on the hunt for a yak.

We started discussing what kayaks he should get and what he currently has his eye on. The question was raised, "What's the difference between something like a OK or a Viking and one of the lower range boats on offer out there?" eg http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/kayaks- ... 184502.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; There are many boats out there on offer and from what I can tell most of them all offer the same list of specs, rod holders, center well, storage solutions, max weigh. Is the same type of plastic used on something like the example above? What is it that makes some of the more expensive kayaks on offer out there any better than a cheaper one? is the hull design superior?

I'm not asking why one person prefers a kayak over another but more are you really going to get that more performance and longevity from a yak that is $1000 more than one of the cheaper ones?

I love my yak, happy with the price I paid for it, and personally feel that quality of the build and hull design are justified in the price. I did a search in this forum and couldn't find any similar threads. If its already been covered, please do point me in that direction.

Love to hear every ones thoughts.

Daniel

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Cowboy
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:59 pm
Kayak Make: Cobra Marauder
Kayak Model: Viking 440
VHF Call Sign: Cowboy
Location: Hawera

Sun May 10, 2015 9:20 pm

I think you will find the follow up support would be better from a NZ company like Viking plus the overall design and finnish would be better. Also you would be supporting a NZ made product.
However if you are on a budget I dont see why the example given wouldint be good for catching fish from.
Its about getting out on the water as much as possible not how flash your gear is.
I got a cheap second hand yak and dont regret it because it got me out on the water, next time though I will be buying a brand new reload (once my wife tells me I can)

SmallBoatBigOcean
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:25 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Profish 400 Lite
Location: Tauranga

Sun May 10, 2015 9:26 pm

Totally agree, I think it's down to do you want to save up for something that is top of the range, or get out on the water now. Would be nice to go out and get top of the range if you had the money for it. If you're like me you prob don't and have to make that trade off!

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paul77
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:18 pm
Kayak Make: ocean kayak
Kayak Model: scrambler xt, cobra marauder
Location: Auckland

Sun May 10, 2015 9:29 pm

I agree that design, finish , overall quality and after sale support are probably the major pros in buying a more "expensive" kayak . Keep in mind as well though that if on a budget a cheaper second hand "name" brand kayak will be a better purchase in the long run, imo ,than a brand new cheapy chinese import .

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Hawk
Posts: 983
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Location: Napier

Sun May 10, 2015 9:37 pm

I would ask one big question - Is it safe?
Scupper holes (the thing most import Kayaks don't do well)
Quality of hatches/seals
Rigidity of hull
Longevity of materials

Second to that is everything else:
Comfort
Rod holders
Speed
Agility
Storage
Quality of finish

The point Paul mentioned about second hand quality Kayaks is very true. If you can get a second hand 4.1/4.3 Ultra (Currently going for ~$1200-1500), you'll be better off in terms of fit-for-purpose and definitely resale.
Even an old Perception Swing like my old one will still go for $500-700.. New price 15 years ago was about $900!

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Cowboy
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:59 pm
Kayak Make: Cobra Marauder
Kayak Model: Viking 440
VHF Call Sign: Cowboy
Location: Hawera

Sun May 10, 2015 11:17 pm

I agree with the second hand brand name point, thats what all my kayaks have been. If they are a qaulity brand they will last years, dont worry about scratches on the hull as long as they arnt too deep.
A couple of my mates have brand new kayaks and they dont catch any more fish than I do.

PJay
Posts: 1310
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:56 am
Kayak Make: Ocean
Kayak Model: Prowler 4.5 x 2
Location: Russell, Bay of Islands

Mon May 11, 2015 7:51 am

Longer-term inmates may recall Team Obsolete, a kayak competition team using ex-hire kayaks from the Paihia waterfront. These things were I guess 10-12 years old, and had spent most of their lives out in the sun, but the plastic was still good and not brittle - just faded. Needless to say, by the time we got them, we had no cause to worry about scratching their undersides.

Second-hand good quality kayaks differ appreciably from newer ones only in the deck and pod layouts IMO, and IMO also are often quicker through the water (the TO Prowler 15s being good examples). If you don't need to fit a lot of electronics or to carry lots of gear, they're the logical option.

Dreadfish
Posts: 745
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:40 am
Kayak Make: Ocean Kayak
Kayak Model: Prowler elite 4.5
Location: Wellington

Mon May 11, 2015 8:06 am

recently i was on a big group trip out... plenty of different kayaks and manufacturers including a group of "cheap" trademe yaks. at the end of the night when we were all on the beach talking.the guys with the cheap yaks made a collective decision to upgrade to brand name kayaks. i can only assume this was due to the effort they made to get a very small distance off shore (couple of hundred meters) while those with the brand name yaks came back in with stories of hour long battles with thresher sharks and showing PB kingfish off. the big difference was the guys with the brand names were kitted out and doing little expiditions up the coast and out to sea. now its fine if all you want to do is sit 100m offshore and fish then a cheap trademe type yak is fine but if you want to do some more adventurous type fishing then the extra dollars is well spent IMO.
Stealth Evolution 495
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OK Scupper Pro

SmallBoatBigOcean
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:25 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Profish 400 Lite
Location: Tauranga

Mon May 11, 2015 8:10 am

Loving the feedback guys, it all makes sense to me. I'll pass this thread onto my mate to have a read and he can make his decision based on what's coming in. Keep the comments coming!

Thanks again

Daniel

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Limitless
Posts: 1591
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:47 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Profish, Espri, 2+1
VHF Call Sign: Limitless
Location: Viking Kayaks, Matamata
Contact:

Mon May 11, 2015 8:57 am

I work for Viking, so could be perceived as being a bit biased, but here are a couple of comments based on public feedback:

1. It's almost impossible to gauge quality of materials and workmanship on some of the non "big brand" imported product. While some of it can definitely look the part when showroom fresh, it can deteriorate surprisingly quickly. Attached below is an image of a kayak that rapidly faded - you can see how bright the orange should be by comparing the area that was protected by the rod holder cap!

As a guide, for non-commercial use I'd be looking to buy kayaks with at least a 10 year warranty, with 5 year warranty as the absolute minimum. With the quality of plastics available on the international market I'd be concerned if a manufacturer cannot back their product by at least that much!

2. The second piece of common feedback is the overall paddling effort. I regularly talk to paddlers of less expensive craft who tell me how much effort kayak fishing is. When they try one of ours, or one of the traded NZ made kayaks we regularly have for sale, the usual first comment is "That was so much easier to paddle!"

As with buying cars, if looking to purchase a kayak try taking the various models of interest for test paddles. This allows the paddler to directly assess whether they're happy with the performance of the kayak.
Attachments
Faded_Kayak.jpg
ZMS8574 LIMA INDIA MIKE INDIA TANGO LIMA ECHO SIERRA SIERRA - practised your phonetic alphabet yet?
The current fleet: Profish Reload, Profish GT, Profish 400 Lite
The historic fleet: too many to mention... the adventures since 1974 have seen lots of kayak carnage
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SmallBoatBigOcean
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:25 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Profish 400 Lite
Location: Tauranga

Mon May 11, 2015 9:33 am

Hi Limitless

Wow, that picture certainly speaks volumes! I appreciate the feedback. You say you have traded in kayaks for sale at your showroom? My mate is on a bit of a budget which I think is pushing him towards second hand or a cheaper new kayak. I'll pass this onto him and he may look into heading over the hill and taking a peak.

Cheers

Daniel

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Mental
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Tue May 12, 2015 10:58 am

Whilst I don't disagree for a minute that it's better to buy quality over say a low (or unknown) quality import I would argue that there are still over priced kayaks on the market...

With my work hat on, before the end of the week I'll show you what one kiwi company is doing to change this with NZ made kayaks for this coming season... :y:
Phoenix Kayaks - Hornet
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...and the countless other kayaks I've owned

SmallBoatBigOcean
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:25 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Profish 400 Lite
Location: Tauranga

Tue May 12, 2015 11:06 am

Mental wrote:Whilst I don't disagree for a minute that it's better to buy quality over say a low (or unknown) quality import I would argue that there are still over priced kayaks on the market...

With my work hat on, before the end of the week I'll show you what one kiwi company is doing to change this with NZ made kayaks for this coming season... :y:
Thanks for the input mental. Sounds intriguing, I'll keep my eyes peeled.

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awondering
Posts: 6632
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Kayak Model: Viking PF400 Custom Black
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Location: Auckland
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Tue May 12, 2015 11:29 am

Mental wrote:With my work hat on, before the end of the week I'll show you what one kiwi company is doing to change this with NZ made kayaks for this coming season... :y:
:o: :o: :o: :o: its near the end of the week Jase come on :^)

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sk8e8
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Tue May 12, 2015 11:36 am

awondering wrote:
Mental wrote:With my work hat on, before the end of the week I'll show you what one kiwi company is doing to change this with NZ made kayaks for this coming season... :y:
:o: :o: :o: :o: its near the end of the week Jase come on :^)
Times a wasting.... :mp:
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fritter
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:10 pm
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Location: Mt Albert

Tue May 12, 2015 7:09 pm

Do you mean at the boat show Jase?

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Kingfish killer
Posts: 7338
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Location: Glen Eden Waitakere City

Tue May 12, 2015 7:44 pm

Mental wrote:Whilst I don't disagree for a minute that it's better to buy quality over say a low (or unknown) quality import I would argue that there are still over priced kayaks on the market...

With my work hat on, before the end of the week I'll show you what one kiwi company is doing to change this with NZ made kayaks for this coming season... :y:
Tease :o:

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Ruff as Gutts
Posts: 2370
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:54 pm
Kayak Model: Swing
Location: Tauranga

Tue May 12, 2015 9:21 pm

I own a $400 perception Swing, and I can catch as much fish as the next bloke :P . If your mate has a history of starting new sports and not finding time to do them, id tell him to buy second hand. If he sticks with the two main brands, next year he can resell for pretty much the same he paid for it. :clap:

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Downtown
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:20 pm
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Kayak Model: PF440
Location: Tauranga/BOP region

Tue May 12, 2015 10:00 pm

Ruff as Gutts wrote:I own a $400 perception Swing, and I can catch as much fish as the next bloke :P

:swear: ing dreamer :rofl:

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piwikiwi
Posts: 1134
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Wed May 13, 2015 1:19 pm

I own a $500 perception swing and dont catch as much as Downtown only because he has a better yak though. im by far the better fisherman. ...

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