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Question for Glass owners

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:12 pm
by Jamie D
Hey Glassies,

Just sold my Prowler 4.3 ( which was an awesome kayak :rock: :y: btw ) with the intention of changing into a Fibreglass kayak. I'm doing almost exclusively a lot of trolling of bibbed diving lures which would benefit from a faster boat ,hence the change to glass and I want some feedback on these two boats from people currently in them . Looking at the Evolution 495 or Evolution 465, not looking at a supalite or a profisha. So what I want to know is ,

* Would the 495 be too much boat out on the water ? and
* Does the extra 30 cm over and above the 465 make a huge difference in speed ?
* Are the fish hatches the same size ?

Any feedback from glass owners greatly appreciated :y:

Cheers
Jamie

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:51 pm
by MadMike
Hey Jamie

The difference in speed is minimal, the difference in stability is quite considerable. On water handling the 495 is nice. you thought about a carbon SIK ?

Question for Glass owners

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:53 pm
by Big k
Fish hatches are pretty much the same.

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:20 pm
by Jamie D
MadMike wrote:Hey Jamie

The difference in speed is minimal, the difference in stability is quite considerable. On water handling the 495 is nice. you thought about a carbon SIK ?
That's Gold Mike that's exactly the sort of info I was after, cheers. I'm a big fan of getting as much stability as I can , I'm leaning 495 for sure. Just spoke to Dennis T from Australian Kayak Specialists via private message today. It's all happening in the new Year.

Plastic was indeed fantastic but
glass is pure class. :y: :y:

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:44 am
by MadMike
Different strokes for different folks mate. GL with the Purchase. Be fussy on the one your buying. Couple of things to check is in bright light stick your head in the hatch and look back towards the seat to make sure there no areas of real thin glass, and inspect the gell coat as there seems to be a little variance the the quality control on the finish. They certainly are eye catching aye.

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:16 am
by YakFisho Snapps
Hi Jamie i've been paddling a Stealth Evo 495 for a while now and love it.. my mate who fishes with me sometimes paddles a 465 and diffrence in speed is not much..have heard some have found the 465 unstable but he loves it and taken it out in some rough conditions and has said he finds it very stable..so what i would recommend is take them out for a test paddle and see how you find them :y:..

* Would the 495 be too much boat out on the water ?
I don't find the 495 to be too much of a boat out on the water absolutely :inlove: it..


* Does the extra 30 cm over and above the 465 make a huge difference in speed ?
As mentioned avove not much in diffrence..

* Are the fish hatches the same size ?
Pretty much the same size..

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:27 am
by lenzman
Hi Jamie, I have owned both the 465 and 495. Like Mike says check the inside finish there does appear to be abit of variance in the quality. That aside I really liked the 495, fast and stable and I was able to handle it on my own onto the roof rack etc. The 465 I found to be alot less stable, not quite so much when paddling although it doesn't like a following sea, but certainly drifting. The 495 has a higher bow than the 465 and catches the wind more, making it harder to turn. The rudders on the Evo's arent the most efficient out there.

As Yakfisho Snaps test drive both try them in a variety of conditions if you can. As an aside I know of one 465 that didn't handle the rough conditions at the Coro Gold Rush comp back in Oct and came back real early. I know that if I'd have been in the 465 I would have been sat on the beach as well, the 495 would have handled it as did my 4.3 Prowler Ultra.

For me tho the 495 is the way to go if your going glass. Good luck with your purchase mate :y:

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:24 pm
by Jamie D
Just wanted to say thankyou to everyone who put there time aside to put together an answer for me. I am feeling a 495 in my bones. The advice about checking the gel coat and the fibreglass thickness under the seat were tops :y:

Thankyou once again

cheers

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:32 pm
by Rusty
well done buddy.

I have the 575 pro fisha and i find the lenght no problem at all in or out of the water.

like anything you get use to it.
I would not go back to plastic now.

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:34 pm
by uktim
So what is the advantage of glass over plastic?

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:38 pm
by Pointloader
uktim wrote:So what is the advantage of glass over plastic?
Speed and weight seem to be the biggest advantages, then for surf launches/landings the central storage is big and can fit all your gear and certain yaks surf a bit easier than others making life a little easier (and a lot more upright :lol: )

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:40 pm
by Rusty
speed and ease of paddling , weigh with lifting

there are dis advantages also
more fragile (easy to repair)
more expensive.

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:13 pm
by MadMike
Out of interest, how many of you stealth guys have performed a speed test ? whats your cruise speed and whats your max etc, not assisted by wind or wave? and not a guestimate, be interested to see what the difference is, never really gauged mine properly just sort of assumed. Obviously someone with proper technique is going to benefit more than someone with poor technique.

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:53 pm
by YakFisho Snapps
MadMike wrote:Out of interest, how many of you stealth guys have performed a speed test ? whats your cruise speed and whats your max etc, not assisted by wind or wave? and not a guestimate, be interested to see what the difference is, never really gauged mine properly just sort of assumed. Obviously someone with proper technique is going to benefit more than someone with poor technique.
The tests are accurate and stop watch timed , The speed tests were paddled by Brett his son who is also an ironman and competed in Australian ironman for 5 years . I found this chart particularly interesting as its accurate and gives us an accurate idea of what to expect from our skis and Kayaks .

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:40 pm
by Jamie D
The advantage for me with glass over plastic is also the ability to fish areas I just couldn't get to unless I wanted to buy a boat, which I don't because kayak fishing is my thing. Over here because everyone lives on the one coast and in a relatively small area the inshore reefs say 1-5km offshore are fished heavily and although still produce good fish it's harder to have a day like you regularly see on KFNZ. With the glass ski's it makes getting out to the outer reefs at the 5-15km mark realistic as the paddle effort involved with a little training is very realistic.

What hairy little dwarf could do on glass boggles my mind.

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:53 pm
by MadMike
YakFisho Snapps wrote:
MadMike wrote:Out of interest, how many of you stealth guys have performed a speed test ? whats your cruise speed and whats your max etc, not assisted by wind or wave? and not a guestimate, be interested to see what the difference is, never really gauged mine properly just sort of assumed. Obviously someone with proper technique is going to benefit more than someone with poor technique.
The tests are accurate and stop watch timed , The speed tests were paddled by Brett his son who is also an ironman and competed in Australian ironman for 5 years . I found this chart particularly interesting as its accurate and gives us an accurate idea of what to expect from our skis and Kayaks .
Hmm so no comparison to plastic any where snaps? looks like the cruising speed is about 1.5km faster than me in a 4.3 but he would be a more efficient paddler than me so hard to tell, but then his tops speed is significantly faster, you didnt do any between your 400 and bfs snaps? Not being a smart ass here just trying to get a true perspective for people on the difference.

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:28 pm
by Jamie D
A cruising speed of 8.6 kmph is awesome in my world, as with all kayak fishing its a personal thing and personally on my 4.3 prowler cruising without busting a gut my speed was around the 6kphm, I'm talking a speed and pace I could maintain for an hour or so. If I acheived a cruising speed of even 8kmph on a 495 I would be stoked. And its the effort required I've heard thats a real selling point for me, I have more fun when I not absolutely dead ringing nackered when I get in , puffing like a mongrel and legs like jelly.

Happy New Year Everyone, love the forum :y:

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:18 pm
by YakFisho Snapps
MadMike wrote:
YakFisho Snapps wrote:
MadMike wrote:Out of interest, how many of you stealth guys have performed a speed test ? whats your cruise speed and whats your max etc, not assisted by wind or wave? and not a guestimate, be interested to see what the difference is, never really gauged mine properly just sort of assumed. Obviously someone with proper technique is going to benefit more than someone with poor technique.
The tests are accurate and stop watch timed , The speed tests were paddled by Brett his son who is also an ironman and competed in Australian ironman for 5 years . I found this chart particularly interesting as its accurate and gives us an accurate idea of what to expect from our skis and Kayaks .
Hmm so no comparison to plastic any where snaps? looks like the cruising speed is about 1.5km faster than me in a 4.3 but he would be a more efficient paddler than me so hard to tell, but then his tops speed is significantly faster, you didnt do any between your 400 and bfs snaps? Not being a smart ass here just trying to get a true perspective for people on the difference.
Have done tests from speeds to hull thickness e.t.c but :x...But what Brett did say was this Some of the figures i have seen on the forum about speeds are really out to lunch and i know this by comparing my own times and speeds in K1s and TK1s and SLSA skis when i was racing and the plastic boats would not have come anywhere near these fast boats.

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:06 am
by MadMike
YakFisho Snapps wrote:
Have done tests from speeds to hull thickness e.t.c but :x...But what Brett did say was this Some of the figures i have seen on the forum about speeds are really out to lunch and i know this by comparing my own times and speeds in K1s and TK1s and SLSA skis when i was racing and the plastic boats would not have come anywhere near these fast boats.
Keep in mind with speeds that people are generally tracking it with GPS that is relatively dubious at the best of times with the sorts of speeds where doing in them, so no time trials or anything scientific like what they have done in SA with the stealth's and Pinnacles. I know we are doing a legitimate 7km/ hour in the 4.3 and sustaining it , doing our morning paddles distance on Gps Vs time taken to travel said distance (that said I wouldn't be able to at the moment, work is making me fat and lazy so need to get back to paddling every morning again), I Max out at 9.5km an hour and can only sustain for a couple of minutes before I roll off the side of the Kayak near dead from exhaustion lol. I guess the biggest difference I noticed in the glass over Plastic was you were not (as) stuffed at that end of the paddle.

Re: Question for Glass owners

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:33 am
by uktim
MadMike wrote:
YakFisho Snapps wrote:
Have done tests from speeds to hull thickness e.t.c but :x...But what Brett did say was this Some of the figures i have seen on the forum about speeds are really out to lunch and i know this by comparing my own times and speeds in K1s and TK1s and SLSA skis when i was racing and the plastic boats would not have come anywhere near these fast boats.
Keep in mind with speeds that people are generally tracking it with GPS that is relatively dubious at the best of times with the sorts of speeds where doing in them, so no time trials or anything scientific like what they have done in SA with the stealth's and Pinnacles. I know we are doing a legitimate 7km/ hour in the 4.3 and sustaining it , doing our morning paddles distance on Gps Vs time taken to travel said distance (that said I wouldn't be able to at the moment, work is making me fat and lazy so need to get back to paddling every morning again), I Max out at 9.5km an hour and can only sustain for a couple of minutes before I roll off the side of the Kayak near dead from exhaustion lol. I guess the biggest difference I noticed in the glass over Plastic was you were not (as) stuffed at that end of the paddle.
It would make an interesting test to see what the speed difference is on a lake to reduce other factors that affect speed. Would be a good location to test a plastic against glass. At least you'll get a good basic comparison (yeah i know a lake is not the sea so is not the best comparison but its the easiest way to mitigate different factors during a test). :geek:

Out of interest why is the 465 so much more unstable than the 495?