Vegetable oils may not be as healthy as thought........

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Celebre
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:17 am

Study released today that re-examines old lost (?buried) data from the 70s that should that cutting out saturated fats and increasing vegetable oils (specifically an omega-6 polyunsaturated) rich oil didn't make any benefits for a bunch of men recovering from a heart attack.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/health-wellbe ... d=10863929" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are claims that the higher death rate in the vegetable oil group were 1) not statistically significant, 2) due to the high transfat content of the margarine supplement 3) not relevant for todays healthier diet and 4) they had too much of the oils and we know (today) that you have to keep your omega 3 (fish oils) and omega 6 oils in balance.

However, this was one of the studies being conducted at the time to try and demonstrate that we should all be moving away from saturated fats and eating lots more polyunsaturated oils (we didn't know about monounsaturated oils like olive when this study was done).

I've been doing a lot of reading around this as part of my PhD and those original studies are....well....I don't see how they came to the claims that they did.

Interesting comment made by a nutritionist....the people in the Sydney study had issues because they had about 15% of their energy intake from the linoleic oil....BUT given that this is one of the most common oils used in cooking (has names like sunflower and safflower) they actually don't know how much we actually consume these days of this stuff. A 2003 Aussie study, based on 1995 data, showed it was about 5%.....nearly 20 years on......I suspect it is much more than that........

As far as I am concerned...butter is just fine (make fish taste much better when you fry them...) Just don't go overboard with it!!

What do others think?

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sk8e8
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:22 am

Celebre wrote:I don't see how they came to the claims that they did.
Like many things, I assume the $$$ were good
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Hairy Little Dwarf
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:29 am

Having had a mate who goes to the gym every day, competes in triathlons, doesn't smoke, doesn't drink and eats healthy go down with a heart attack - I figured it's completely random. :D
That, and if he has an MI, my chances of old age are effectively nil!

So, I'll continue to eat cheese out of the fridge and boil my fish in butter (unsalted, because that makes it healthy)
butter-1.jpg
butter-1.jpg (46.94 KiB) Viewed 668 times
With my BP, HDL and LDL all being on the "excellent results" side of the range, I'm not that convinced it's solely down to if you eat dripping on toast or not...
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nzimp
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:32 am

Butter or Olive oil for me. Keeps me being the fine figure of a man that I am.

I wonder if you posted this because you think some of us are in need of the help :lol: .

I think it comes down to if you eat too much or drink too much you will feel the effects. Everything in moderation means more money for fishing gear :y:
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Paul in NZ
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:48 am

Just ordered this and had it arrive.

http://thesmarterscienceofslim.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Once I finish the current 'falling asleep on the train' book I will get into it. It promises great things.

Another study I enjoyed was 'The China Study'

http://www.thechinastudy.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got interested in this stuff after my little cancer scare and of course being a type 1 diabetic I know how much diet can improve/wreck your life.

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Celebre
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:25 pm

nzimp wrote:I wonder if you posted this because you think some of us are in need of the help :lol: .
Nope...just curious as to what people are using, but also to raise awareness that these "heart healthy veggie oils" may not be as good as what people think....

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murf
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:11 pm

Butter or Olive spread. Whole meats (joints that include the fats, collagen etc required for healthy joints) and meat which has been raised eating what it's supposed to.

I highly recommend two books that may contribute to your studies if you've not already read them, the first is "Deep Nutrition" by Catherine and Luke Shanahan, and "The Vegetarian Myth" by Lierre Keith.

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Celebre
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:05 pm

Thanks.

I'm currently reading "Good calories, Bad calories" by Gary Taubes and then I have "Sweet Poison" lined up and will keep those in mind for after then.

The Cholesterol Myths was eye-opening as well.....

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Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:54 pm

I've recently converted to cooking with coconut oil, which like butter has had bad press due to saturated fat. But there seems to be some research that suggests it's good for you...

http://www.nutrition.org/asn-blog/2009/07/coconut-oil/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercol ... 21453.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fresh fish crumbed in panko and lightly fried in coconut oil is delish!!! Gives a lovely golden crumb. :y: It doesn't take like coconuts either!

Plus it might stop me going crazy when I get old... :lol:
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sk8e8
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:58 pm

I just ate (mostly) meat for a few months. Lost 13 kg.

Have your steak and eat it too :)
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paul77
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:00 pm

I firmly believe in how combustible something is as to its "health" benefits ie how easy oils and fats burn when you put a flame to them , animal fats burn better than processed vege oils this goes along with the dynamic veg theory of how quick something breaks down in the compost is the same as how quick and complete the nutrient transfer within your body is .Mind you this is all my own quackery and no education to back it up I drink a vast amount of homebrew and smoke too many ciggies so maybe its just hybrid vigour keeping me alive ?

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murf
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:05 pm

Interesting thread. I too did the 'no carb' diet a while back and went from 96kg to 83kg in less than 3 months. "Mainly meat" would adequately describe this diet. As many know, eating 'fat' doesn't make you fat, taking in more energy than you lose does, and sugars are our highest source of this. And yes, potatoes, corn etc is sugar by this definition. A fantastic source of energy if you have to run for miles with a spear to catch the protein you need for repairing joints and muscle tissue, but excessive for sitting on the motorway listening to Classic Hits on the way to KFC.
X2 for the Coconut Oil. The important thing here is that it's cold pressed and has a high flashpoint. When your cooking oil smokes, it's giving off carcinigenic hydrocarbons.
We have the sorry distinction of being the 3rd fattest country in the world at the moment, behind the States and Mexico, hardly a bronze to be proud of. Heart disease, diabetes etc are already crippling our Healthcare services and it will get worse. Support and knowledge are the key to defeating this problem, not ridicule and blame, or ACCEPTANCE.
Another interesting thing to note about the calorie thing is temperature. Calorie is actually a unit of heat, this is missing from the calorie equation that has baffled many for ages. We know it takes x number of calories to run a certain distance and there are X calories in such and such a choc bar. Those who have studied this couldn't work out where the gap was, it's near impossible to burn the 2000 odd we intake a day. A study in one of the books I just recommended was around a guy who was intaking 12000 calories a day, which should have made one massive person, but he was in great shape. A swim athlete in fact, who spent several hours a day in a pool training. Water has 4 times the thermal load of air (in simple terms it takes us 4 times as much energy to maintain core temp in 26 degree water than 26 degree air all things being equal.)
Interesting that one definition of Celebre is "an issue causing widespread controversy or debate" :lol:
Couple of fun facts to lighten things up: The average skeleton weighs only 29 pounds.
Obesity is almost never genetic - it is environmental.
You need to do 250,000 sit ups to burn one pound of fat (or spend a day with Paddlesnap/HDL :rofl: )
A pound of bodyfat contains 1,000,000,000 fat cells and requires 3 miles of blood vessels to support it.
1kg of lean muscle burns 100 calories a day. :!: (courtesy of Tim Bean)

A useful tip for general 'good eating'. When eating anything, ask yourself: "could this meal have existed 200 years ago?" Chances are if the answer is no you are eating something, processed with additives/added sugar/preservatives etc.

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tipper
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:50 pm

murf wrote:A useful tip for general 'good eating'. When eating anything, ask yourself: "could this meal have existed 200 years ago?" Chances are if the answer is no you are eating something, processed with additives/added sugar/preservatives etc.
I like that, because wine and beer would be included :lol:
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:52 pm

murf wrote:You need to do 250,000 sit ups to burn one pound of fat (or spend a day with Paddlesnap/HDL :rofl: )
Now why have i asked HLD to go for a paddle on saturday? :sweat:
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Celebre
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:54 pm

murf wrote: Interesting that one definition of Celebre is "an issue causing widespread controversy or debate" :lol:
I didn't know that :rofl:

Given that my department at Uni is starting some metabolic work - many of us are low carbing. I've lost 5kg since christmas. But I'm not pushing the low carb bandwagon.....

(Still eating heaps of veggies.......)

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murf
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:32 pm

Well done :y:

Fresh veges are very important as when you first start to part with bodyfat a lot of toxins are released and need dealt with. Fresh herbal teas are great too. These are taste dependant and some don't taste that good to some. Experiment with different flavours and enjoy the ones you like - some are nice chilled too.

Carbs are important too, just minimise the volume and if possible separate from the proteins - they have very different digestive processes. I've had to teach myself to chew properly too, this not only enhances the enjoyment of the meal but enzymes are released in the mouth during 'mastication' that get the digestion process rolling. If you eat in a hurry (as we often do) you're probably eating badly, your poor tum doesn't know what to do with big chunks of food.

At the end of the day it's all about lifestyle rather than diet, a 'diet' tends to be a short term thing and what do you know, when you revert back to 'normal' eating, so does your body! Make small, incremental changes in the right direction.

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nzimp
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Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:26 pm

murf wrote:Carbs are important too, just minimise the volume and if possible separate from the proteins - they have very different digestive processes
Been trying not to mix carbs and proteins. When I manage it my whole digestive system feels better. I feel lighter and my wife loves the fact that I tend to not leak as much gas :tmi: .
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