Spiral/Acid wrapped rods???

Discuss fishing tackle, methods, and kayak fishing accessories here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Pointloader
Posts: 2289
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:19 pm
Kayak Make: Viking Kayaks
Kayak Model: Profish Reload
VHF Call Sign: ZMW9774
Location: Auckland
Contact:

Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:28 am

Hey guys, I wondered what this term meant as had never seen one before so did a bit of searching this morning and found some pics to explain. I also wondered if anyone uses them or has an opinion on how good/bad they are?
They sure look interesting...
Attachments
Acid Wrapped.jpg
Acid Wrapped.jpg (31.02 KiB) Viewed 1234 times
Acid Wrapped 2.jpg
Acid Wrapped 2.jpg (24.19 KiB) Viewed 1234 times
Acid Wrapped 3.jpg
Acid Wrapped 3.jpg (38.3 KiB) Viewed 1234 times
Image
https://www.facebook.com/FishingAddictsAnonymous
Viking Profish Reload, Viking Profish GT & Viking 2+1
Viking Kayaks Pro Team
Lowrance Pro-Staff
NZ Black Yaks 2015
ZMW9774

User avatar
Jeff666
Posts: 985
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:34 pm
Kayak Make: Ocean kayak
Kayak Model: Trident 4.3

Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:40 am

Ask Milkey he has 2 new ones.
Old Town Predator 13
On the way The Old Town Predator PDL

User avatar
nzimp
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:24 pm
Kayak Make: Stealth
Kayak Model: Evolution 495
Location: Rotorua

Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:57 am

http://www.acidrod.com/acidrods.html

They are designed to take the load off the tip so there is less pressure needed to fight fish. As the fish pulls down you don't need as much grip as the rod is not trying to twist in your hands.
Not got one myself but I have thought about it as the "science" seems right.
Simple is as simple does.
http://www.wkfc.org.nz
Image

Stealth EVO 495
Viking 2+1
Prowler 4.7 (back in the fleet)

User avatar
awondering
Posts: 6636
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:47 am
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Viking PF400 Custom Black
VHF Call Sign: ZMT8884
Location: Auckland
Contact:

Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:14 pm

nzimp wrote:http://www.acidrod.com/acidrods.html

They are designed to take the load off the tip so there is less pressure needed to fight fish. As the fish pulls down you don't need as much grip as the rod is not trying to twist in your hands.
Not got one myself but I have thought about it as the "science" seems right.

That science just confused me :lol:

Somehow I doubt Milkey needs any assistance in holding a rod or the need to eliminate any pressure from a fish :?:

User avatar
nzimp
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:24 pm
Kayak Make: Stealth
Kayak Model: Evolution 495
Location: Rotorua

Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:33 pm

Basically means lighter gear is needed.......I think :?:
Simple is as simple does.
http://www.wkfc.org.nz
Image

Stealth EVO 495
Viking 2+1
Prowler 4.7 (back in the fleet)

User avatar
sk8e8
Posts: 5263
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:13 am
Kayak Make: Extreme
Kayak Model: Game King
Location: South Auckland

Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:01 pm

I have one, but currently un-tested. Very keen to try it though :devil:
Jigheads Paddling and Fishing Team Member
http://www.facebook.com/Jigheadspaddlingandfishing

Yak PBs. Snapper: 18lb 12oz @ Cuvier * John Dory: 4lb 6oz @ Cuvier * Kingfish: 10kg @ Mayor Island * Blue Nose: 22.7kg @ White Island * Hapuka: 8kg @ White Island * Skipjack Tuna: 5lb @ Auckland

Extreme 605
Yamaha FXHO * Viking Profish 400 * Pinnacle Elite * Viking Profish 440 * Mission Catch 420

MadMike
Posts: 6276
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:09 pm
Kayak Make: Ocean Kayak, Stealth
Kayak Model: Ultra 4.7, Stealth EVO 495
Location: Whangarei

Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:27 pm

nzimp wrote:http://www.acidrod.com/acidrods.html

They are designed to take the load off the tip so there is less pressure needed to fight fish. As the fish pulls down you don't need as much grip as the rod is not trying to twist in your hands.
Not got one myself but I have thought about it as the "science" seems right.
Have fished many from synits (Tiny CO) , Smiths to John Kojaks hand made Jigstars, they do what they do very well but... In a lighter weight rod for casting they offer slightly more guide friction effecting cast distance minimally. They are designed to take the torsional stress out of the rod that causes blank rolling and breakage. In heavy gear this roll is transformed into pressure on your wrist. If your going to get a custom rod made then it's not a bad option to have, but until you start to hold serious drag in say a jig rod and 15kg+ drags the noticeable difference is minimal on the angler.

Note, they must be a well set up spiral wrap or they will offset the line going onto the reel. they have an offset feeder guide nearest the reel to counter this but unless its done right ....
Fishing is like a box of chocolates. you never know what is going to be served up...

User avatar
YakFisho Snapps
Posts: 5541
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:38 pm
Kayak Make: Stealth
Kayak Model: Evolution 495,BFS..
VHF Call Sign: Yakfisho Snapps
Location: Wellington

Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:39 pm

MadMike wrote:
nzimp wrote:http://www.acidrod.com/acidrods.html

They are designed to take the load off the tip so there is less pressure needed to fight fish. As the fish pulls down you don't need as much grip as the rod is not trying to twist in your hands.
Not got one myself but I have thought about it as the "science" seems right.
Have fished many from synits (Tiny CO) , Smiths to John Kojaks hand made Jigstars, they do what they do very well but... In a lighter weight rod for casting they offer slightly more guide friction effecting cast distance minimally. They are designed to take the torsional stress out of the rod that causes blank rolling and breakage. In heavy gear this roll is transformed into pressure on your wrist. If your going to get a custom rod made then it's not a bad option to have, but until you start to hold serious drag in say a jig rod and 15kg+ drags the noticeable difference is minimal on the angler.

Note, they must be a well set up spiral wrap or they will offset the line going onto the reel. they have an offset feeder guide nearest the reel to counter this but unless its done right ....
Are they any good for an anchor off a yak with 15+ kg drag and the offsets my omoto vs is out of service now and drag can handle the jangle to keep me anchored :rofl:.....

User avatar
Stonecross
Posts: 1044
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:30 pm
Kayak Make: Ocean Kayak
Kayak Model: Trident 4.3 Ultra
VHF Call Sign: ZMW3804
Location: Pt Chev, Akl

Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:28 am

I dont get it..I must be short a few nuerons..I thought that every blank has a backbone, and that placement of the guides (directly on top or below) on the backbone was the most effective way to minimise rod roll...oh well, I'll just plead ignorant as it looks like weird science :-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ocean Kayak Trident 4.3 Ultra - ZMW3804

MadMike
Posts: 6276
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:09 pm
Kayak Make: Ocean Kayak, Stealth
Kayak Model: Ultra 4.7, Stealth EVO 495
Location: Whangarei

Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:45 am

Line wants to take the shortest route. so on a spin rod there is no torsional twist. On an OH the line is running the longest route so under heavy bending the line is trying to twist its self under the rod causing the torsion. The idea behind the spirals is to get the line under the rod in the quickest possible way to stop this twisting. The back bone is the cause of rod breakage because as the blank twists it bends the rod off the back bone. you can not get a rod to twist by pulling on the tip, the only way is to run the line through the guides and really load it up.
Fishing is like a box of chocolates. you never know what is going to be served up...

User avatar
Milkey
Posts: 658
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:00 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Reload

Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:01 pm

Have been up north testing this spiral wrap concept on a prototype rod for someone ;)
I have asked a couple of rodbuilders about the reason for it. One said because it feels good (somewhat subjective) and the other one said it was because the line is pulling from the underside so stops any rotational forces from line running on top of the blank and applying pressure to try and twist it.
I understand the concept but in saying that I've heard from other respected fisho's that it's possibly not needed.........
So my take on it, and this is my opinion. The only need would to have it on a heavy jigging rod for kingfish or similar due to the forces exerted. On a light rod we use for snapper for instance it would be a cosmetic thing.
I am basing this on the fact my new spiral jig rod hasn't caught a fish and my heaviest kingie was caught on my softbait set..... :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/user/MegaMilkey" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
plastic tiki
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:17 am
Kayak Make: Ocean Kayak
Kayak Model: Prowler 13
Location: Tauranga

Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:18 pm

Milkey wrote:Have been up north testing this spiral wrap concept on a prototype rod for someone ;)
I have asked a couple of rodbuilders about the reason for it. One said because it feels good (somewhat subjective) and the other one said it was because the line is pulling from the underside so stops any rotational forces from line running on top of the blank and applying pressure to try and twist it.
I understand the concept but in saying that I've heard from other respected fisho's that it's possibly not needed.........
So my take on it, and this is my opinion. The only need would to have it on a heavy jigging rod for kingfish or similar due to the forces exerted. On a light rod we use for snapper for instance it would be a cosmetic thing.
I am basing this on the fact my new spiral jig rod hasn't caught a fish and my heaviest kingie was caught on my softbait set..... :lol:
but looks wicked as eh bro! :)
The perils of kayak fishing are great...... especially for the fish!

User avatar
Badfish
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:23 pm
Kayak Make: Ocean Kayak
Kayak Model: Prowler Elite
VHF Call Sign: ZMS9099
Location: Whangamata

Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:52 am

I love them, I think fishing them is the only way to figure out if you like them or not. It’s definitely a personal preference thing though. I don’t tend to build or use them in blanks that are fast action or so to speak only bend in the top 3rd or 1/2. The more the parabolic (or the more of the rod blank that actually bends, believe it or not some bend right through the reel seat to the butt section) the more I like because the more the rod is healed over the finer the movement at the reel end effects the twist at the tip. When you’re really hauling a fish in under huge drag and your focus is just on the up and down I reckon they really come into their own.
Some people like it some seem to hate it, some people 100% believe the transition needs to be from left to right others think right to left… I’m not so set on people’s own “rules” I sort of think that they can improve some rods and situations but end of the day it’s what the customer wants to get out of the rod that determines what I/we build for them. If ya get the chance to try one, give it a go.

User avatar
Limitless
Posts: 1591
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:47 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Profish, Espri, 2+1
VHF Call Sign: Limitless
Location: Viking Kayaks, Matamata
Contact:

Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:46 pm

Spiral/Acid wrapping in one form or another has been around for a long time. I first encountered a version of it published in a first edition rod building book by Dale P. Clemens I bought some time ago. If my memory serves me correctly the technique was used then on a range of "Apollo" or "Apogee" (or similar name) blanks that had noodle like tips; the spiral wrap stopped the tips twisting off the rods. In my communications with rod builders in the States at the time it was noted there was a small loss of cast distance put down to a little extra friction, but no loss of casting accuracy. I'll see if I can dig the book out of my library for the details.

Just a personal observation - rod blanks and their construction techniques have changed somewhat over the years since I first learned the rod building art for commercial production (for Wilkinson's Sports back in the 1980's, and continuing for a variety of outlets until I was too busy with my kayak shop in Kamo a few years ago). The latest blanks are so radically different it's always exciting to see how they perform and how skilled rod builders approach their handling characteristics with rod design. I like Badfish's response re the style of blanks he uses it for and the fishing techniques where it has the greatest application (predominantly straight up and down on slow/parabolic blanks).

As a side note: I've totally lost count of the numbers of custom rods I've built, and the numbers of high quality custom rods I've fished beside that've been fished to the absolute MAX using good angling technique, and I've never seen a rod broken due to torsional stress. Quality blanks and good fishing technique go a long way towards keeping rods whole, but so can "new" guide positioning designs. I'm looking forward to kayak anglers comments on how well Spiral/Acid wraps work for them :y:
ZMS8574 LIMA INDIA MIKE INDIA TANGO LIMA ECHO SIERRA SIERRA - practised your phonetic alphabet yet?
The current fleet: Profish Reload, Profish GT, Profish 400 Lite
The historic fleet: too many to mention... the adventures since 1974 have seen lots of kayak carnage
Find me at Viking Kayaks in Matamata... you gotta love our sport!

User avatar
Limitless
Posts: 1591
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:47 pm
Kayak Make: Viking
Kayak Model: Profish, Espri, 2+1
VHF Call Sign: Limitless
Location: Viking Kayaks, Matamata
Contact:

Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:52 am

This is a topic I've had a few conversations about in the last week or two. Now I'm back home after last weeks far North expedition I got a chance to do a little research. It seems one aspect of Acid/Spiral wrapping that gained a little traction amongst a few lighter tackle anglers was the ability to reduce the guide count on baitcaster rods - since the guides are under the rod rather than on top, fewer are required to keep the line from touching the blank. This can make for a reasonable weight reduction as it includes guides and associated thread and lacquers/resins. The theory is the reduced weight at the far end improves blank action and cuts down on the amount of tip whip (wobble) at the end of the cast, which in turn can improve casting accuracy.

Referring to my post above: here's the book I mentioned, copyright inside the title page is 1978 (which helps explain the "graphics")
Attachments
Rod Building 1.jpg
Rod Building 2.jpg
ZMS8574 LIMA INDIA MIKE INDIA TANGO LIMA ECHO SIERRA SIERRA - practised your phonetic alphabet yet?
The current fleet: Profish Reload, Profish GT, Profish 400 Lite
The historic fleet: too many to mention... the adventures since 1974 have seen lots of kayak carnage
Find me at Viking Kayaks in Matamata... you gotta love our sport!

Post Reply

Return to “Tackle and Accessories”

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests