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Rigging Softbait 
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:13 pm
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Post Rigging Softbait
This may be a silly question, but I'll ask anyway. Is there any reason not to put a swivel clip on the end of your mainline (braid) and attach your flouro trace to the jig head one end and a swivel on the other end. Then just clip your trace onto the mainline as you need it. As you've probably guessed, being a novice fisherman I'm more comfortable tieing knots sat at a table where I can take my time, check it and do it again if it isn't qute right. I could take a few pre tied traces with me (with different weights of jig head on) and swap as needed.

I do this with all our shore fishing tackle, with a swivel clip permanently on the end of each line, then just clip on whatever is needed on the end. Makes it quick and easy, especially with at least 4 sets of tackle to set up for me, the wife and kids.

Thanks
Kevin


Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:37 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
I used to do what you are doing, until I learnt (the hard way) that generally when you either break off or have to cut the line (on a snag) its above the swivel, so I now recommend that you learn how to tie those knots when sitting in a kayak.


Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:49 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
Kevin there are only 3 knots you have to learn , the bimini twist which doubles your braid and you need to double it , this is the best and strongest knot for when you double , it is also the hardest to do out of the 3 . Probibly best for someone to sit down with you and teach it to you , i did this with another forum member last week .
The next knot to learn is the back to back uni knot or the yucatan knot , these are for joining your flurocarbon ( trace ) to your doubled braid line . I used to do the double uni knot but have recently changed to the yucatan knot as i think this is a little better when casting and probibly easier to tie .
The last knot to learn is a uni knot which i use or think a lefties loop which i havnt learnt . These 2 knots are for tieing your jighead to your flurocarbon ( trace ) .
If you are going to try softbaiting you need to learn these knots , you cant do it half arsed and be useing swivels ect . You also need a softbait rod and reel .
Softbaiting is a very , very , very effective way of fishing and i hardly ever use bait anymore , it also brings back the enjoyment of fishing , big fish on light gear is a rush ! :rock: .
I would suggest you go and buy the january copy of NZ FISHING NEWS as this has an article on the knots and pictures to follow .
Tackle store salesman will usually tie knots for you the first time also , but i suggest you just practice , practice and practice more .
The bimini twist drove me mental for 12months before i sussed it out .
Good luck , if you live in auckland i dont mind showing people how to tie some of these tricky knots .
Cheers kk


Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:06 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
I know this will probably start a knot war but you can start off with just one knot... Learn a Uni Knot then you can do a back to back Uni Knot to join your braid to your leader, and you can use the Uni Knot to tie your jig head on...

From there learn the Five Turn Surgeon to replace the back to back uni knot, and learn the Leftys Loop to tie the jig head on with...


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Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:21 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
Uni Knot



Back to Back Uni Knot



Surgeons Knot (do five turns and have your braid doubled)



Leftys Loop / Rapala Knot



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Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:42 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
Mental wrote:
I know this will probably start a knot war but you can start off with just one knot... Learn a Uni Knot then you can do a back to back Uni Knot to join your braid to your leader, and you can use the Uni Knot to tie your jig head on...

From there learn the Five Turn Surgeon to replace the back to back uni knot, and learn the Leftys Loop to tie the jig head on with...


Youll get no war from me mr mental :lol: . You can learn the uni knot for tieing jig heads and joining lines together but you still have to double your line . There are easier knots to double your line with than the bimini twist but once you learn it not to bad and is supposed to be the strongest double .
I used to to do the 2 unis myself until i sussed the yucatan . :)


Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:41 am
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
I will add fuel to the fire and suggest that when on the kayak the only knots that you need are the 5-turn surgeons knot, you can use this to double braid as well as join leader to braid, and Lefty's loop for leader to jig head. Both knots are easy as and take seconds to tie. I have never had them fail yet...hope that is not tempting fate :)


Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:52 am
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
I understand the logic behind not using a swivel as when you snag it busts off above but I know the great man S Tapp uses this method to allow quick weight changes without noticeable dropoff in strike rates. I always use albright to braid/fluro and perfection loop to jighead with no problems and the purists say better without swivel more natural. What do you guys reckon ?


Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:06 am
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
Kingfish killer wrote:
Mental wrote:
I know this will probably start a knot war but you can start off with just one knot... Learn a Uni Knot then you can do a back to back Uni Knot to join your braid to your leader, and you can use the Uni Knot to tie your jig head on...

From there learn the Five Turn Surgeon to replace the back to back uni knot, and learn the Leftys Loop to tie the jig head on with...


You'll get no war from me Mr mental :lol: . You can learn the uni knot for tieing jig heads and joining lines together but you still have to double your line.


I double my line but without tieing a knot, I'll just double the braid by folding it back on itself, tie the knot and then cut off the tag end, I see no advantage on tieing a knot for the double myself, it's a) another knot to tie/learn b) it must add another weak point to your line


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Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:55 am
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
I tie my braid onto a swivel clip, then have a swivel at one end of my leader and the jig head at the other. I have no trouble casting, and the fish don't seem to mind, although I am not specifically targeting big fish.


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Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:58 am
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
One point of not having a swivel in line means you are not limited to a certain length of leader as you can pass the knot through your guides for casting where as the swivel limits you as it will hit the top eye of your rod.


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Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:03 am
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
Well kevin there you go , seems everyones got there own ways of tieing so its probibly clear as mud for you now ah ! :lol:
I do happen to have a few books and mags on the subject of rigging up for softbaiting , written by some of the so called fishing gurus mark kitteridge , john eichelsheim and sam mossman . All 3 use the bimini twist to double braid , i assume the knot is tied so theres no chance the double can slip under a heavy load .
All 3 also use double uni knot or the yucatan knot when tieing the doubled braid to the trace .
Sam mossman has some facts and figures on the strenths of some of the knots . The test were done on a high tech line testing machine to provide some hard statistics on the performance of different rigging techniques .
1st BRAID DOUBLE KNOTS
spiders hitch 46%
five turn figure 8 52%
bimini twist (10 turns) 98%
so the bimini is easily the best

2nd DOUBLED BRAID TO MONO LEADER
five turn surgeon 78%
double uni 84%
yucatan 85%
blood knot 86%
so the bottom 3 knots are all similar , the double uni has to be 15 turns braid 12 mono , the blood 12 turns braid 10 mono

This is why i use the bimini twist and the yucatan or double uni .
I hope this info helps
Cheers kk :)


Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:12 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
I do the same as mental, a double Uni for braid to mono, and a lefties loop for the jig head, would suggest not usig a uni on the jig head as it is a clinch style not.
Not sure if anyone has said it yet but one main reason for not using a swivel is that braid to metal is not a great idea, and is a definate weak spot.
Thats why people use fuji style guides on softbait rods. ;)
Like KK said though everyone seems to do different knots, and Mental is the only person i can think of who uses the same knots as me....

p.s I realy rate teh bimini twist as a knot, I just dont have the patience when the fish are on the bite.
That being said I know a few forum members who have it down to a fine art.


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Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:25 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
Thanks for all the tips, I think I'd better expand my knot tieing range (which currently only runs to a uni-knot and a dropper loop knot -and I tied an albright knot once). Having looked at quite a few diffferent ideas I think I'll start with a spider hitch for the doube, a yukatan for the braid to leader and lefty's loop for the jighead.

I had hoped to get out to try them today, but when I got my rod out to start tieing knots I noticed a broken guide, so it's at the local fishing shop having a new one fitted -should be done tomorow. Just as well though, it was pretty rubbish weather when we went up to the Manakau today anyway. Was going to take the kids fishing at Matakawau, but the waves were crashing over the wharf so we didn't bother.


Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:41 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
bah, no need for them there fancy knots

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granny knot, quick simple, everybody knows it and good for winching in ya breakfast Image


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Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:15 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
I have always used the uni knot to tie my jigheads on and have caught some very large fish with this knot and never ever had it break .
Its one of the common knots that softbaiters use to tie jigheads on with , so called experts included .
In saying that im thinking of changeing to a lefties loop for no other reason than it may ( or not ) produce a better action in the water because the jighead gets to swing a bit more .


Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:10 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
Kingfish killer wrote:
In saying that im thinking of changeing to a lefties loop for no other reason than it may ( or not ) produce a better action in the water because the jighead gets to swing a bit more .


I would agree that the primary reason for using the Lefties Loop it that allows the jig head to swing freely creating better action. I often use a clip though, this is for two reasons. It allows me to change jig heads quickly and secondly means that I don't go through leader material as quickly. However, I am not sure that they allow the jig head to swing as freely as with a lefties loop. There is always a compromise :?:


Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:19 pm
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
Hey harry , i remember your clips when we were on the last barrier trip . I can see your logic with a little bit of time being saved when changeing jigheads , but in realality it only takes you 20 seconds to tie a uni or lefties loop .
But hey thats whats so great about fishing , we all do things a little different , as long as were all catching fish and not whingeing about why that big one busted me off at the knot then its all good . :)


Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:18 am
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
yup, you are absolutley right KK. It only takes seconds to tie. I guess if I am entirely honest a large factor in using clips is me being a scrooge. I have been stocking up with softbaits, jigheads, trace material etc for Barrier trip and it struck me that man this is an expensive game. Pretty sure that it is far more expensive than when I was rocking fishing with stinky bait :swear: So I tend to try and save a few coins by making the trace last a little bit longer, also means then that I don't have to get into the whole braid/ leader knot thing while on the kayak and can sit and tie knots like the bimini twist, which I do use, in the comfort of my living.
I know that I reality it probably doesn't make a blind bit of difference but it makes me feel better for trying :lol:


Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:59 am
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Post Re: Rigging Softbait
Kingfish killer wrote:
I have always used the uni knot to tie my jigheads on and have caught some very large fish with this knot and never ever had it break .

Hey KK I wasnt implying that the knot was weak (hence I use them on my braid to braid), only that the movement is decreased a little having a clinch style knot.
The coment about the swivel on braid is nothing to do with the knot itself whatever knot you use, its the having braid on metal thats the issue.


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Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:53 pm
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